Quickies

Skepchick Quickies 7.29

Amanda

Amanda is a science grad student in Boston whose favorite pastimes are having friendly debates and running amok.

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49 Comments

  1. As far as the “Guys On Immodesty” article goes, could it also be considered “objectifying” to judge women by what they wear and how they act even in the context of modest vs immodest? I’m interested to hear other opinions.

  2. Re: foreign accents – Back in the early 90’s I spent a summer doing a home-stay in Hakodate, Japan. This is the southernmost city on the northern island of Hokkaido. Since it’s a fishing industry city, there are a larger number of foreigners there, especially Russians. Now, for some reason there was a fear of bicycle theft in the city, and I was never clear exactly why. Some of us expats thought to take advantage of that for humorous purposes (it was my observation that our sense of humor was generally totally lost in translation).

    Whenever a stranger would ask us what we were doing in Japan, we’d answer in facetious ways. My favorite was to adopt a fake Russian accent and say, “I am here for shopping.” If asked what I was shopping for, I’d lean over conspiratorially and say in a low voice, “Bicycles.”

  3. @Jen: I think women have bodies because God made a nice platter of baby back ribs for Adam… something, something, from the dust… uh, dominion over all creatures…

    It’s been a long time since Catholic school, so I might have gotten some of the details wrong.

  4. “Something that is immodest is something that is unnaturally revealing” (unnatural emphasis mine)

    So unnatural = naked (ala “birthday suit”) and natural = sackcloth tent?!?

    I have to say that their question about shirt pockets drawing attention to the bust is lacking. What about pocket protectors?
    Ttly t3h hawt. Rawr.

  5. Xtian Modesty – The worst part is the complete acceptance that a woman has nothing to embrace in being sexual. The implication is that sex is for men to have and control, while women should hide and pretend they have no desire at all.

  6. Regarding accents and trust in accuracy, it’s not just an adult problem. Preschoolers also trust adults with foreign accents less than they trust adults without. I can’t find the reference right now, though.

  7. 51.1 christian men agree that a girl bending over with her back side toward you is a stumbling block.

    I guess that means I can never bend over at school. Because no matter which way I’m facing my booty is bound to be pointed squarely at some guy. I guess I’ll just have to get a boyfriend, so he can pick up my pencils for me.

  8. @Mark Hall: Oh, please. I’m a regular at Gay Pride events and similar. I’ve seen much worse than you in a skirt and halter top, I promise! I’d rather that then some of the weird “underwear” (and nothing else) certain men like to wear.

    I like how proud bears of are of their bellies, though. I just want to rub up to the fuzzy bellies and rub them.

  9. Forty-seven think that t-shirts with messages across the front improperly draw attention to breasts.

    OMG. WTF. I can’t even wear a shirt with text on it? Ugh.

    An immodest lady is loud, proud, and dresses in a way that communicates such an attitude (male, age 24).

    Ladies! Don’t be loud! Nor proud! You must be quiet and meek and unsure of yourself and your place in the world. Otherwise, you’re an immodest whore.

    Something becomes immodest when the person wearing it has an attitude of carelessness (male, age 17).

    And sometimes, they don’t make much sense (what is this “attitude of carelessness”, exactly?). He’s only 17, at least.

  10. @Skept-artist: Yes, yes, I know. I must wear solidly-colored tops that go up to my neck, but not a turtle neck, as that may still be considered immodest due to my rather large chest. I must ask men to do everything for me, even if it’s just picking up a dropped pencil, as even doing something so mundane will make me seem immodest, and it may incite lust in all the men around me. (I do have a rather nice bum, so this could be true.)

    And I must not run, and indeed I must walk slowly while daintily holding my purse over my chest as even just a slight jiggle of my breasts may make me seem like an immodest whore and may cause every man on the street to lust after me, or even assault me.

    Not only am I being immodest if I jiggle even slightly, but I am in danger! Men cannot control their dark desires and I must be careful not to wear a skirt too short, or a shirt too tight, nor even a loosely-fitted t-shirt that says Bazinga! on the front (dammit!) as I will certainly be in danger because of my immodest, whorish ways.

    And of course, I will now have to wear really ugly swim wear so that I do not incite lust in men while on the beach. But even those seem too immodest — someone might see my breasts jiggle!

  11. @marilove: Excellently summarized. I mean, I would argue that men should be taught, oh I don’t know, to control their lustful thoughts or some-such. But we all know that this is Scientifically Impossible.
    Also, you should change your avatar, because Mr. Izzard’s provocative coloration and pose is getting me uncontrollably riled up. Also, he’s a dude, which makes my lust double-plus wrong in the eyes of the Lord.

    EDIT: Above, I referred to ‘my lust’. This statement was made in error. It’s actually the Devil trying to tempt me, therefore I disown any acknowledgment that I am in control of my actions. Sorry for the confusion.

  12. Would there even be a point to asking women what they think qualifies as immodesty in men? Is there such a thing?

    Well, I guess, on second thought, maybe not, since women don’t have a sex drive. They just want attention. Sex is what they hold hostage in exchange for attention. /snark

  13. @Skept-artist: And I must not forget to be quiet and meek, and not loud and proud. That could still incite lust and evilness, no matter how modestly I dress.

    Man … these men and boys would all think I was a Super Slut. I wonder if I get special powers?

    And don’t you forget: I delight in inciting lust in men, because I am a tease. Thus, the Eddie Izzard icon. Who can resist Eddie Izzard?!

  14. Whoops! Left my barn-door open, and I’m commando today. Welp… why bother zipping up? I can’t be immodest, after all, I’m a guy! And there’s nothing sexy about balls. Ever.

  15. You should only do these things if you want to marry a good christian man, and if you’re genuinely modest. Otherwise it’ll be rape by deception, and I think an abstinence-before-marriage wedding night is likely to be an awkward enough memory as it is.

    “I’m going to hell for spilling my seed on the sheets after clumsily bumping my manhood against the perineum of an immodest harlot for five seconds trying to find an opening.”

    See how much of a difference the “immodest harlot” bit makes?

  16. Re: Foreign Accents article, I would love to see this done cross culturally. I think you’d see stronger reactions in places that are more homogeneous than the US, such as Japan (as @Zapski: pointed out).

    Also, it would be interesting to add a group to the study that was *not* foreign, but perhaps had a speech impediment, such as a lisp or stutter. I imagine this would also lower the “truthiness” score.

  17. @marilove: No. missy, you shouldn’t even own a purse, because owning one implies that you go outside. where young men could see you and become inflamed by lust. Any good Xian girl knows that her place is inside, where the kitchen and the washing machine are.

  18. Does anyone remember where that study is located that found that modest clothing actually ends up making guys hornier because they’re fantasizing more (than actually seeing what’s there)? Or something? Iirc, the research was done in Poland or somewhere and had to do with horniness levels in winter vs. summer, clothing-being piled-on vs. miniskirts/halter tops ..

    It suggested that all that religious “modest clothing” was having the opposite effect. That seeing scantily clad chicks all the time desensetizes one and seeing a bunch of burkas walking around makes your brain crazy…

    ? (and I have googled it..I just don’t even know what to google)

  19. Coming in late today (DSL probs yesterday).

    On the modesty/body thing:

    And in that data pool, we have the next Evangelist-Christian-Leader-Sex-Scandal candidate.

    On the accent thing:

    I mostly grew up in the DC area (which still had a lot of more Southern Virginians at the time), but was born in NYC and my parents are NYC-natives. So I talk quickly, but also retain a touch of a Southern drawl and colloquialisms – it’s a touch odd, but primarily, I sound like I’m from the mid-Atlantic seaboard (’cause, you know, I am).

    I never really thought about my accent, until I landed in the upper Midwest where many people do sound like they were extras in “Fargo”. (Not a criticism, just an observation.) I threw so many people when I got here – someone actually asked me if I was from Australia (and I sound NOTHING like I’m from Australia).

    But there’s a woman in one of my business networking circles who told me one day that “You know, you’re really nice and supportive and professional. But with your weird accent and rapid speech, I thought you were a New York shyster when I first met you.”

    Yes, she actually said, “New York shyster.” I laughed it off to be polite, but went home and banged my head against the wall for a while.

  20. @whitebird: To tell the truth, I actually run into that at work, in myself. We’re a fairly multicultural area, with older folks who are around when the neighborhood was affluent, middle class immigrants, and po’ trash of pretty much every shape and color.

    The ones who turn my head pretty consistently are usually wearing headscarves. No clue as to why. I mean, yes, they are highly attractive, but they’ll usually get my attention faster than a tight pair of jeans.

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