There, I said it.
To be fair, for the most part I am completely ambivalent to the Olympics — I don’t watch, I don’t discuss it around the water cooler, and I don’t scan the sports section of the paper to see how many medals “we” have won (“we” is odd because I had nothing to do with it and only have the good fortune to live in the same swath of 3.5 million square miles as some of the athletes).
When the US male swimmers win a gold and world record, I’m generically happy for them and can appreciate the amount of training and discipline they invested, but ultimately I’m apathetic. It’s not that I don’t like sports, as I happen to really love cycling, skating, and playing football, softball, tennis, and other sports. It’s not that I think that placing so much emphasis on physical prowess causes us to lose focus of the importance of mental prowess (though I do think an Olympics of Smartness would be rad). So why the “hate” in the title?
Because of girls’ gymnastics.
I know a lot of people already vocally criticize the “sport,” but I still feel a need to add my tiny voice to the fray. Girls’ gymnastics is depressing to watch. Old men pushing girls’ frail little prepubescent bodies far beyond their limits, causing serious injuries that last a lifetime. People actually cheer when a little girl snaps an ankle and fights back the tears to go out and win a medal for her country, her trainer, and maybe herself. Ugh.
This year is particularly bad, when the Chinese have probably fudged records to let girls as young as 14 compete when the minimum age is an already-too-young 16. The girls are at risk to be abused by managers and simply injured or killed with a single misstep, and no matter what they’ll lose a large chunk of their childhood to endless hours of training in gyms. And for what? The best a girl can hope for is a medal and the happy feeling that comes from knowing you’re good at something. There are so many more important things a girl can be good at that it’s just a stupid, pointless waste to risk it all on a balance beam.
I can’t really add anything more to this side of the discussion, because so many ex-athletes and others have done a better job of it than I can. Here’s a great NY Times opinion piece about the topic. I should mention that I was inspired to write about this today after reading a post on Jezebel with this wildly ignorant statement:
But, despite Buzz Bissinger’s scathing New York Times column from last week decrying the many corrupt elements of gymnastics — the eating disorders, the injuries, the possibility that the Chinese are allowing underage girls to compete — if you watch Shawn Johnson’s near-flawless balance beam performance in yesterday’s qualifying round, all that criticism falls away.
I’m horrified by the idea that the very just criticisms of this cruel sport fall away because one girl met the ridiculous standards of the judges. The writer of the piece is the same woman who previously wrote rather ignorant things about freedom of religion. I really, really wanted Jezebel to live up to its claim as a blog for smart women but instead again and again I’m disappointed.
I’m in total agreement about girls’ gymnastics, and the egregious displays of nationalism.
That said, watching the US men’s 4×100 freestyle team beat the favored French team (who had earlier in the weekend had said they would “smash” the US) by coming back in the last leg and winning by .08 seconds was pretty fuckin’ sweet.
But I’m a sucker for upsets like that.
I always found the Olympics to be a bunch of sports that I don’t really care about, especially that the only sport that I can claim to actually know all of the rules to is Baseball, which will no longer be a Olympic Sport (after this Olympics).
I would like to come up with a new Olympics based around classic games like Musical Chairs, Red Rover, Dodge Ball, Hackey-Sack and Butts Up.
Rebecca, maybe we should come up with a list of sports we would like to see at the Olympics, or even an Olympics of Smartness list of activitees…or at least a better title.
Pi Recitation is a key event at the Olympics of Smartness. I’m a world-class participant in the Useless Trivia Relay.
Thankfully, I don’t have to waste all of my time at the gym, and rarely risk injuries, to acheive at this level. All it takes is the Internets and caffeine (and/or sugar).
At least the Olympics has (mercifully) pushed the Favre-a-palooza out of the media forefront for the time being. I was so tired of hearing that man’s name…
Protesilaus –
I don’t know what this “Butts Up” is, but count me IN. I have a feeling I’ve trained all my life for it.
The only reason I was excited about the Olympics this year was because I figured it would put a bit more international pressure on the whole ‘China-censors-internet’ thing. And various other human rights issues. But mainly the internet.
And for the record, I always thought competitive drinking should be an Olympic event. And the 400 meter stagger. In that order.
Ooxman:
We could tack on another activity and make it a Triathlon drinking game. Is there something more epic than Beer Pong?
Alcohol Triathlon:
-Synchronized Shots
-400 Meter Stagger
-An as yet unnamed event where participants see how many buddies they can call at 4am to have them bring more alcohol.
And yeah, duh, Beer Pong.
I’m certainly open to other names for the Smart Olympics, as well as other event suggestions. Hell, maybe I’ll work that idea into the next Skeptics in the Pub trivia night!
Ooxman – I believe you’re referring to the phenomenon known as “drunk dialing”, or at least a specific type. Other common 4am conversation topics are:
– “that hot friggin’ chick/guy at the bar! OH MY GOD you should have seen her/his ass and she/he totally was CHECKING ME OUT THE WHOLE TIME!”
– “Dude! Holy shit, dude! I just saw some dude wearing the exact same jacket that you have. NO I’M SERIOUS!”
– “WHY DIDN’T YOU COME OUT WITH US? YOU PANSY! CLEAN THE SAND OUT OF YOUR – oh, pneumonia, for real?”
Gymnastics is certainly not unique in that it takes a high physical toll. You could say the same about football. I think what changes our reaction is that in gymnastics, the damage is happening at such a young age while most other sports it happens over a longer stretch during which an adult decision to leave can end the punishment. You don’t really have that option at 16 or under.
In a lot of countries, there is one other thing that the gymnastics participants get: a rescue from poverty. In China, for example, parents put their children into these programs at a young age for the potential of sweet government-subsidized living.
Oh, and I don’t like the Olympics much either because coverage is so stale. It’s all gymnastics, swimming, and track and field. Yawn.
I’m personally all for the fencing. I used to be a fencer, so it’s always really exciting for me to watch.
As for names for the Smart Olympics….how about the SmartASS Olympics…eh, eh?
I feel about the same when it comes to the Olympics. I don’t care much about it one way or the other.
I’ve always found women’s gymnastics a bit disturbing. It seems pretty unhealthy for 16+ year olds to be prepubescent. Especially if they have been holding off puberty by exercising like crazy and eating barely anything.
Breaking Olympic News:
Weather Control Doesn’t Work
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sports/sports-news-round-up/2008/08/11/olympics-weather-takes-toll-on-tennis-91466-21508049/
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-08/11/content_9163367.htm
Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, lots of kids don’t mind countless hours spent training because they like it?
And don’t forget, just because you don’t like the risk:reward ratio of the balance beam doesn’t mean someone else does.
TheChzech, that’s actually a good point about the rescue from poverty thing… actually it’s just good to hear that there’s still girls being born in China at all.
And Rebecca, I think The Pi Recitation idea would be great for some Pub Event-goodness. And maybe Synchronized Species Identification. Actually I just like the idea of intoxicated synchronized -anything-.
mxracer652,
Of course it’s a possibility the kids like spending hours upon hours in a gym. And perhaps they’ve carefully examined the risks and choose to do it anyway. But? Not likely. These gymnasts start training at an impossibly young age. Can a six-year old make a decision to put herself at risk like that? To delay puberty? To be anorexic? To give up any other activities and friends?
Agreed, women’s gymnastics is creepy.
I do like watching the track and field events, though, being a former (really really awful) sprinter.
Can we add Flip Cup to the drunk Olympics?
Rebecca & mxracer652:
Unfortunately, this is the impossibly fine line between freedom and safety. We can go from one extreme, deny medical treatment and slowly work our way to religious indoctrination of children (and in between is the fundamentalists’ indoctrination). I think with gymnastics, what is going on in China is horrible, but if a 12 or 13 year old girl wants to try it, I’m pretty sure she can do it healthily without going to the insane route that these individuals go. It’s a spectrum, but I don’t think Rebecca did anything wrong pointing out the extreme side of the spectrum, and the people in the Olympics tend to be the extreme end of the spectrum.
And has anyone tried to play twister while drunk, I think we really should have more coed competitions in the Olympics.
If there’s a co-ed naked drunken Twister event, I’m in!
Where the mat is non-porous, and there’s a hose nearby, drunken Twister can succeed.
Rebecca: “These gymnasts start training at an impossibly young age. Can a six-year old make a decision to put herself at risk like that?”
And that’s the key, isn’t it? There are plenty of professional football players who by middle age can barely walk. For the most part, they say they would do it all over again if they could anyway. But they made the decision that got them where they are much later in life instead of having them made for them by adults responsible for their care.
Protesilaus:“has anyone tried to play twister while drunk…”
Has anybody ever played Twister sober? I mean the question literally. Has anyone in the entire world ever played Twister sober? I suspect not.
I has. Several times.
me too.
As far as Olympics of Smartness is concerned, there is Academic Decathlon. Unfortunately it’s limited to high school students. There’s also contests like the MIT Mystery Hunt. It would be cool to see the winners of such events on a Wheaties box.
After several years of ignoring the Olympics, I got sucked in this weekend. I did watch girls’ gymnastics. Whenever I watch something like gymnastics, or figureskating, or the X Games I can’t help but be in awe. It just doesn’t seem that humans should be able to do that stuff.
Don’t get me wrong, it doesn’t excuse the sacrifices and abuses demanded of the participants (maybe less-so with the X Games, I don’t know). Just because humans CAN do those things, doesn’t mean they should.
I remember those academic decathlons competitions. I still have a box full of medals and fond memories of staying up until the wee hours with the female-dominated Plano East team. Good times.
Oh man, I remember the Academic Decathalon. I won a gold in english and silver in math. Now here I am nursing a hangover, posting on an internet forum. What happened??
…plus I misspelled ‘decathlon’, right before bragging about my medal in english. Wow.
Nicely done. You win the bronze in Irony by the Popular, but Incorrect, Definition. :P
well now that we are pulling out medals and trophies and stuff…I got a room full of them for….well. Sports. Gymnastics, dance, swimming, and softball. Now I kinda feel retarded.
In the ways of academia, I’m hoping my “medal” will come in the next year when I maybe (*fingerscrossed!*) get a paper published in a scientific journal. Which one? I have no idea…I’m working on that part.
I’m not entirely sure we -had- an Academic Decathalon. That makes me sad. I was always in Marching Band championships, concert band competitions, and cheered on my friends at their forensics and drama one act competitions.
If it makes you feel any better, I’ve also got medals for track events, and trophies for baseball and swimming. I don’t still have any of the music or drama awards, though.
Check me out: I’m well-rounded!
YAY for well-rounded people!!
…It’s the reason I supposedly got into college…
Whaaaaa….? 32 posts and the words “sexual olympics” have yet to make an appearance?
“Ten, ten, nine point eight…then my mother, disguised as the East German judge, gave me a three point five. Must have been the dismount.”
Oh! And I still have the HellRider Award I got for stubborn tenacity back in my fighting days. I’m rather inordinately proud of that one.
oooohhh. You one upped me on that one. The only fighting I’ve ever done was with a sword.
Isn’t there already a “sexual olympics”? I thought we were just into original topics. Should we make a new list?
I was a fighter in my youth. I did a lot of western martial arts when I was a teenager. My best were hammer/shield, broad sword/knife, and long spear (which is almost cheating when you’re 6’4″). I never really got into epee or foil (from which modern fencing evolved), but I do enjoy rapier… so much that I have a custom hand-forged sword for it.
Also, they canceled the sexual olympics after they realized no one in the world could compete with me. :P
How about blindfolded drunken twister? How do you know where to move? Use your psychic powers. Oooh Johnea13 I didn’t know you were so hung. That was my elbow you were sucking on.
Am I the only one who tossed all my childhood trophies? I had a truckload of softball trophies, and one lone medal from the one Science Olympiad my grade school ever entered.
I still have my Zeitfunk trophy, but I just got it. It’s in my window.
mxracer652 said:
In addition to what Rebecca said, I also thought I’d add that the Chinese gymnasts start training at the age of 3. Toddler girls who show signs of having exceptional flexibility (and whatever other skills a 3-year-old could exhibit to determine her gymnasticiness) are put into the training circuit.
Most preschoolers I’ve met are more interested in big wheels, learning not to wet the bed, and Sesame Street than spending 8 hours a day in rigorous olympic training. But then again, I’m no childhood psychology expert.
In other news, anyone in Chicago this Sunday can enter the Mahoney’s Beer Olympics… this is the event I’ve been training for since I was a three year old girl.
No, Rebecca, lots of people do. I probably would have if I hadn’t packed them away and forgot about them for years and years.
“Could”… “would”… it’s all a matter of semantics isn’t it?
Meh, it’s close enough for my ego to distort into something that makes me feel better, so I’ll live with it. :P
I was in the era of, every kid deserves a trophy, and since I wasn’t exceptionally skilled physically, and there were no acknowledgement of mental prowess anywhere near me (not saying I am exceptionally skilled there either) I have no trophies that mean a damn.
Thats the fault of those programs. Sure I got trophies, but they are all worthless in my eyes.
Purdue University used to have the Nude Olympics.
In the overall rankings of fun things to do naked, this didn’t even rate. In the dead of winter, when an especially cold day arrived, it was held in the quad of the big male freshman dorm. It was basically a contest to see who could run around naked in the cold the longest. Participants were mostly male, but there were exceptions.
Rebecca,
You seem to be creating the false conclusion that rigorous athletic training as a youth = no friends, hours in a gym, anorexia, no other activities, forced participation, and frankly, that’s a lot of crap. I’ve been there, and done it.
There’s always going to be the exception, but that is most definitely not the norm.
That being said, it’s up to the parents to decide what is an acceptable level of risk for their children. Just because it’s not in line with you or anyone else doesn’t mean they’re wrong.
mxracer652:
I don’t think Rebecca generalized anything like that. She made specific points about what does happen in places like China. She isn’t saying that everyone who chooses to be a gymnast is anorexic and has no friends.
Wrong, mxracer652, you’re battling a straw man. I am in no way condemning childhood athletics — hi, I played organized sports from the moment I could pick up a bat. I am condemning Olympic-level girls’ gymnastics, which does encourage all those things I listed. Call me skeptical, but I don’t believe that you have “been there, and done it” as a 14-year old female high-level gymnast.
It is wrong for parents to allow their kids to go through that — not because it’s not in line with my opinion but because it is objectively wrong to force or allow a child to place themselves in such danger.
I don’t remember Academic Decathlon, but we did have Knowledge Bowl in high school. I wasn’t an active participant, but I dropped in on practice sessions a couple times because I had some friends on the team and didn’t have anything better to do at the time. It’s basically a trivia competition between teams from different schools. I enjoyed wowing everyone on the team once, when I was the only person in the room who knew what Occam’s Razor was.
Rebecca, didn’t you have a great black eye a few months ago to prove that you support athletics?
Elyse,
I’d prefer to keep the discussion to non Eastern European/Communist countries, as they’ll throw anyone under the bus to achieve 3 minutes of glory for the Homeland.
*Most* children would prefer screwing off and doing whatever, but there are those who enjoy the sport because they enjoy it. Again, unless you’ve been there yourself, you wouldn’t understand, child psychologist or not.
8 hours of training a day is not realistic either, again, if you’ve ever been there, you’d know that by now.
Indeed, it should be fairly common knowledge that I’m an athlete as well as . . . an athletic supporter.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/skepchick/sets/72157602820080277/
Wait . . . So are we hating gymnastics in this thread? Or is it the parents, or the governments, or the IOC? Who exactly are we blaming for the tiny tiny, non-menstrating, incredibly flexible pixies flipping across my TV screen?
Athletic supporter. Tee hee. Protesilaus with the assist.
I’m curious. At what age do male gymnasts start training? I don’t remember seeing male gymnasts as young as the women athletes, but I don’t know, maybe the men just take longer to get up to qualifying skill.
Sam,
Well, you’re free to hate what/whomever you’d like in this thread. Personally I’d place the most blame on parents for letting their kids be subjected to that industry and for letting it get so far that they’re injured for life. I blame the coaches who push little girls to destroy their bodies. I blame governments like China’s, who may be changing documents to abuse even younger girls in the name of winning a gold medal. And I blame girls like the Jezebel writer for outright stating that abuse doesn’t matter so long as you win.
This Olympics has been a farce. Half the people I know are boycotting it.
As a friend of mine said, “Whenever I see the Olympic facilities, all I can do is wonder how many homes were destroyed to build them.”
On top of all the endurance athletes whose careers will be ended by lung damage from the fucking smog. On top of ongoing human rights abuses by the Chinese government.
It’s just a farce.
Ballet has a much longer history of abuse, eating disorders as well as life long debilitating injuries for the participants.
As for politics the Beijing games remind me of Berlin in 1936 except the Chinese have pretty much finished up with the mass killings.
(And I kicked ass in knowledge bowl back in the day)
Ballet is horrifying. My sister barely dodged that bullet.
JF is right. Ballet is even worse.
The four funniest words in Olympic history are “the sport of trampoline.”
Personally, I know some people have decided I’m a jerk (or a dweeb) for insisting that figure skating has no place in sports. Any competition in which you’re awarded points for artistic merit simply isn’t a sport.
My definition of sport would have to include objective measures (e.g., goals scored or time to complete course) and some element of physical skill or ability. So I would say darts is a sport but figure skating isn’t.
I understand gymnastics events are judged partly on artistic merit, or something like that. So I’d say it doesn’t belong in the Olympics simply because it isn’t a sport.
And yeah, there’s that whole “creepy” factor.
Wait…does that mean that Marching Band isn’t a sport? There is PLENTY of physicality to marching band. In fact, I have spent many an amusing afternoon watching non-marchers trying to prove that they can do many of the things marchers can. Too bad they can’t.
Sure, most of it is based on artistic merit…anyone can march, but not everyone can march in such a way to make it look AMAZING.
So yes…anyone can figure skate, but only those with superior levels of finesse can make it look beautiful.
I agree ballet is worse. I worked for a couple of ballet companies. You can also add suicide to that list of woes, too.
As far as China and human rights, that needs to be dealt with politically. I don’t know if anyone remembers the 1980 and 1984 boycotts. They changed nothing. The individual athletes who spent years training are the ones that suffered the most not the host country. People that had their only Olympic shot in 1980 were totally shut out of any chance of Olympic competition because of that political decision. Isolation only helps to prolong these practices. Opening up and maintaining communication and developing ties are what turns most oppressive regimes around these days.
And we may wonder how many homes were destroyed to make way for the Olympics but you have to also wonder, what kind of homes were they. Were they dilapidated? Did those people in those homes wind up in better circumstances? Did they find work they might not have found because of the Olympics? Has there been improvement? Homes are lost for public projects all the time – and better an Olympic Stadium is built than having your perfectly good, habitable house taken by eminent domain and turned over to a commercial developer to increase the tax base like the Supreme Court decided is totally within government’s right.
Speaking of the 1936 Berlin Olympics, they provided be one of the longest lasting presentations of Hitler being humiliated when Jesse Owens and Ralph Metcalfe cleaned the Germans’ clock by winning gold and silver medals in track . Thanks for making sure that got documented on film, Adolph.
It may be a mistake to get down specifically on gymnastics and sports anyway. There is this bug some of us get up are ass to ignore danger to accomplish things. In any discipline, extreme measures will be taken to succeed. Humans are like that. You can just as well get down on science because Marie Curie physically killed herself doing her research. It wasn’t just the radiation that injured her for life but also the hours of shoveling tons of potash as well. I recommend reading the “The Radioactive Boy Scout” as an example of youth’s folly – truly highly dangerous folly – and persistence in pursuing science.
And isn’t it demeaning to suppose that young women in the free world are being forced by mean old men to compete? Are you saying that their parents are incompetent and abusive? Are you saying that by 11 or 12 they are too dumb to say that they don’t want to do it?
In other places, it may be way out of poverty for them and their family and will make the rest of their lives better and longer despite injuries.
All I’m saying is that the big picture is way bigger and more complex.
Speaking of the Olympix, did anyone notice this unusual new story today, about a former East German Olympix athlete who won medals during the mid-1980s having a sex change in 1997 as the consequence of all the ‘roids she was given. “He says he had been fed so many steroids by his coaches without his knowledge that physical and emotional problems began….
Her coaches said they were giving her vitamin pills, but they were actually feeding her Oral-Turinabol anabolic steroids. ”
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/11/sexchange.athlete/index.html
That’s quite a price he/she paid for the glory of her father/motherland.
By the time they are 11 or 12, they’ve been mindfucked for three-quarters of their lives about it. They won’t say they don’t want to do it most of the time. Have you heard of Stockholm Syndrome? Does that require starting with a toddler and spending eight years about it? No, it doesn’t.
Were I so inclined, given the same freedom to instill ideas into someone’s brain in that time span, I could craft you twelve-year old girls who believe the world is fifty years old, the moon is the center of the universe, I am twelve stories tall, that my cat is the Living God, and who will punch themselves repeatedly in face at a gesture from me… and they won’t say they don’t want to do it. Minds are malleable, mcmatz, young minds especially so. If they weren’t, religion would be nearly so prevalent in this world, nor blind “patriotism” nor a host of other screwed-up situations.
Sure, in some places it may be the lesser evil. Significantly so, in some cases, I’m sure… but only for the ones that succeed. For every girl you see in the Olympics, hundreds went through the same horrors and have nothing to show for it except mangled bodies and minds.
mcmatz,
That’s a very false analogy. Had Marie Curie been six years old and given a lump of radioactive material to play with by parents who knew it might be dangerous, and had she made absolutely no scientific progress for humanity and merely served to improve the ratings for network TV . . . then the situations might be similar.
No, and especially not if it’s true. Of course, I didn’t say that.
Incompetent, abusive, ignorant, self-serving, apathetic — there are many possibilities.
Too dumb, too young, too indoctrinated, too eager to please, too ignorant of the long-term health effects — again, many possibilities.
It is complex, but luckily not so complex as to cloud the obvious point that it is too dangerous an industry for young girls.
I’m afraid to even turn on women’s gymnastics competition. I figure if I tune in to that for more than 5 seconds (the allowable time to comprehend what you’re watching and change the channel out of horror) Chris Hansen would show up on my door.
A few facts.
1. 16 pre-pubescent. At least drop the “pre”. The term refers to a time before procreation is possible and the average age of menarche is around 13 or less. http://www.mum.org/menarage.htm
2. A 33 year old gymnast is on Germany’s team. http://www.girlsdigsports.com/germanys-33-year-old-gymnast/
3. Most people are not boycotting. The opening ceremonies set a record for viewership. http://seat42f.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3054
PaulK,
Thank you Paul but I think everyone here knows the meaning of “pre-pubescent. I used the term correctly. Intense physical activity can significantly delay the onset of puberty. Here’s a specific study referring to gymnasts:
I’m not sure what your #2 and #3 points are addressing.
Rebecca, did you SEE the women’s road race? Not only was it awesomeness, but the result ended up hinging on a mental error made by the breakaway group after the chase rider (who ended up winning) miscalculated a rainy corner. There was heaps of mind games at work.
The men’s road race was similarly gripping, although it was more a display of Cancellara’s raw power as he buried the chase group and one of the three lead riders in the last few meters. And although I’m sure the winners have been riding bikes since a young age, they were 25 and 30 for the women’s and men’s event.
It is only the events like gymnastics, sprints, and swimming where guile is not important. In most events, competitors must react to their opponents, the conditions, and the game situation. And it is great to watch that happen at an elite level.
Oh wait a second. If you’re in America, you must be watching NBC, which only shows the short attention span sports. My apologies. After all, fawning over and talking up the 16 year olds is way more economical than actually putting people out in distant venues for sports run by real men and women.
As someone with, and has come to an appreciation of (and participation in) something resembling high-level athletics past the high school and college lump, and as a cousin of two high-level gymnasts, I feel there’s a lot of smoke going around without much fire.
1) Anyone who is under the impression you can get to the Olympics without some rather unique mental qualifications, needs some more time on the track/in the pool/on the platform/piste/bar/etc. And by and large, the apparent American cultural war on expertise notwithstanding, people get rewarded for their intellectual achievements on a pretty continuous basis. Taking 17 days every four years to acknowledge the forms of physical expression and competition besides football and baseball that most of the world’s people engage in strike me as reasonable, if not conservative.
2) Yes, China doesn’t deserve to sit among the world’s free nations by a longshot. They will-and the only way to get there is to talk to them, trade with them, compete with them, and in general wear down the lines. It’s happened economically, and the positive changes in the life of the average Chinese person are overwhelming and undeniable. It will happen politically-but only if the rest of the world continues to demand that China rise to the occasion. Talk to Chinese nationals-they recognize that this is an acknowledgment of the Chinese people and not the Chinese government.
3) Lastly, I know gymnasts. Two sets of aunts and uncles were parents of national competitors, and even I had a spat on the male side when younger. I’ve hung out in gyms, dated gymnasts, babysat gymnasts, and can say with some certainty that this perception of “stage moms” driving children to physical oblivion via brainwashing (Stockholm Syndrome? Really?) is laughably far from the truth. Do they exist, somewhere? Sure. Met them. Do those competitors make it to the top? Nope. Resentment is a potent obstacle to performance. Would I call their numbers statistically relevant? Again, nope. The more common picture is youngsters asking to be involved in something like dance, discovering they like to tumble, and keeping it up, with parents going out of their way to cheer and coach and support. Most drop out. A few discover that winning is fun. A few of those note that increased devotion yields increased rewards. Most will have their parents try and get them out of the gym more. Some go, some don’t. A few will discover they live at the confluence of natural talent and a strange, undeniable attraction the the focus that the beam or the floor demands, and most of those will have kind, supportive, very concerned parents. I’ve known of more parents encouraging gymnasts to wash than of pushing them to a level they’d rather not go. Because it doesn’t work.
Do injuries happen? Yep. But tendon tears and breaks happen at a fraction of the incidence they do in soccer, basketball, or anything more mainstream. Do delayed menses occasionally happen? Yes, but not with any frequency considered significant in the medical literature, and happen with equal frequency in the other youth sports. And everything you’ve ever heard about stunting, growth plate fractures, or the rest is really painfully bad science that has finally been peeled back in recent years.
And, by and large, when you track down these women in their post-competitive days, and they live normal lives. Their bodies are healthier than others their age, because they know how to care for them.
I think if you took time to befriend athletes at this level, in these sports, the emerging picture isn’t one of shattered bodies and minds whipped along by parents and coaches seeking vicarious success. You’ll see young people of extraordinary focus, making a tough choice every time they show up to practice ( a choice most of them don’t end up making) surrounded by people who care for (and fear for) them.
@Aristothenes – Well done. The ones that -truly- want to be there are the ones that will succeed in the long run. There is the occasional extremist (when is there not?) that will give a bad name to the sport. I feel like China might be pushing it on this aspect, but don’t the Chinese push their children just as hard on the mental front as well?
@ Rebecca – I think what PaulK was trying to do with point #2 was simply point out that not every single female gymnast is a 16 year old. It is a little upsetting that the gymnasts at 16 are prepubescent though.
I’m pretty disgusted by the fact that girls are “chosen” (*ahem* forced) into their gymnastics training, some at age 3, and are from then on pushed to the point of debilitating mental and physical exhaustion. It really goes for any sport. Parent wants their child to succeed in something because they’ll feel inadequate if they raise a “normal” child and their child reaps the consequences of a life filled with pressure to win and be the best at everything. Not that being the best at something isn’t a positive thing, but it depends on how you get there and what it ultimately costs you. Many of these little girls will spend years training day in and day out only to go to the Olympics once (or not qualify at all and bring shame to their family) and then do nothing but promotional ads for Wheaties and flavored mineral water for the rest of their lives. They will be one-hit-wonders. Is that really worth all of the pain they’ll have forced upon them?
mcmatz: “Speaking of the 1936 Berlin Olympics, they provided be one of the longest lasting presentations of Hitler being humiliated when Jesse Owens and Ralph Metcalfe cleaned the Germans’ clock by winning gold and silver medals in track.”
This does not affect the gymnastics discussion, but the belief that the Germans were humiliated in the 1936 Olympics is a myth based on American news reports which stressed American wins.
As host nations often do, Germany won more medals than any other country. Reports are that Hitler was pleased with the outcome and saw it as a sign of German superiority.
The real story is not as satisfying as the myth…as is often the case.
Ari, I can’t comment on your anecdotal experiences, but I can comment on the facts you cite, which are simply wrong. You stated:
From Gymnastics-related Injuries to Children Treated in Emergency Departments in the United States, 1990–2005:
And here’s an article about that paper.
That’s just not true. There have been multiple studies looking into specifically the onset of puberty in gymnasts, and they have repeatedly confirmed the fact that it happens often. The study I quoted in my previous response is just one.
That study does place the injury rates as statistically equivalent to soccer, basketball, and cheerleading-which doesn’t strike me as cause for panic. The most commonly displaced metastudy of injury rates in sport was gathered for a study in on weightlifting, and while the web version is a little aged, the physio guys I talk to say the data is largely the same. It places gymnastics at about the same hourly injury rate-but places soccer about 12 times higher-and the largest fraction of those are girls with knee injuries.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/236687/Hamill-1994Relative-safety-of-weightlifting-and-weight-training
I think focusing the analysis on emergency room visits is misleading-degenerative injuries leading to quality of life issues are not necessarily associated with the obvious risks of fall and collision that gymnastics obviously has, and tend to occur more often in athletes like marathoners than power and strength athletes.
As for the second-yes, I did go too far. My bad.
http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/37/6/490
It should be noted, though, that no one seems to have data on post-competitive bone density, or on comparison to other youth sports-in other words, whether it has long term health effects or is an effect unique to gymnastics. Given that the youth effects of a sport associated with similar physical effects, and closest to my heart-Olympic weightlifting-have been found to be entirely spurious, I have suspicions.
I apologize for any intellectual overreaching I may have committed, and don’t want to give the impression of being some kind of unwavering apologist. Far, far from it. Sports are dangerous, some more than others, and the costs involved in some are often too high for most competitors. I just bristle a little, as a former anti-athleticist (new term?) when I hear people seemingly assuming that anyone involved in hard, painful, dangerous sport, is crazy, stupid, or mercilessly whipped. If people can willfully begin to something as generally bad as cocaine, I find no cause to believe that people can willfully engage in something as generally good as sport.
Again, sorry if I was rabid, or misstated the facts. Thanks for the studies, and the discussion.
I feel compelled to point out that until Pierre de Coubertin came along, the Olympics were nude.
Now, while I’m not going to defend gymnastics, I feel compelled to defend my own turf, since my a scientific research project involves elite athletes.
Elite sport, and the Olympics in particular, have a very important role in science. First, they provide an important opportunity to study the limits of the human body. Second, they provide a way to develop new technologies very cheaply.
Suppose, for example, that you have a multi-use technology that could be used in, say, health care or in elite sport. Testing it in health care requires endless paperwork, ethics committees, money and hassle. Testing it in sport is cheap: you just need to convince the relevant coaches and biomechanists that your technology might be helpful.
So sport is a kind of “gateway application”. It lets you develop new technology for a greatly reduced cost. You can then go to the trouble of applying it to other areas, like health, with a greater confidence that it will work.
Rebecca,
Prove that gymnastics, specifically at the elite female level, encourages anorexia, no friends, no outside interests, etc.
On the bright side of women’s gymnastics this cycle, I’m super excited about Oksana Chusovitina, who is on the German team, and is 33. I don’t know anything about how she’s done, but the fact that’s she’s there is awesome.
I’m a gymnast myself, although I’ve never done any competition. I’ve mostly worked women’s events, just because that’s the equipment that parks and recs gymnastics programs are going to have, and I’ve gotten the chance to work men’s events some, and I will say this: women’s events are a lot more fun.
Any human being who has the opportunity to follow his or her passion, assuming no intentional harm to self or others, should do so if that is their want.
Unfortunately, “renaissance” men and women are rare. Often, brilliance is associated with sacrifice. In my opinion – no studies shall be sited here – the socially impaired, chess genius is not inferior nor superior to the elite college basketball player whose grades are a charade ( yes, both are stereotypes ). I deplore the parent who subjegates his child to sport or academia. I deplore a country who does the same.
If the passion is that of the individual I shall always applaud their olympic effort or academic effort, but I applaud even louder for those who challenge both their minds and bodies. I am a fan of diversity. Moreover, those who have acheived a level excellence , yet challenge themselves at something they might fail at I admire most.
Before heading off to college , my son excelled as a junior and a senior in our state’s Academic Decathalon tournament, helping lead his team to national competition. As a junior he also wanted to join the swim team as well. Unfortunately, he really couldn’t swim. So he took swim lessons ; fortunately for him all those wanting to be on the swim team could be on the swim team. As a junior he won gold medals in AD. As a junior he came in last every race he swam. As a senior, he won first place overall as well as many other medals in AD. As a senior, in his last race, my son finished NOT last. He actually finished somewhere in the middle.
I’m not certain which brought me ( or him ) more happiness – his first-place rewarded passion for academics ( his natural gift ) and the hard work he put into it or his not-last-place rewarded success for accepting the challenge of possible total failure and the hard work he put into that challenge ( a very unnatural task for him ).
Watching my very bright son actually look like a swimmer thrilled me. He accepted the difficult task head on and gained a newfound skill and a sense of accomplishment that will serve him well as he moves foward in his future career in bioengineering.
As a pediatrician I have often said that pediatrics would be easy if it weren’t for parents. Domineering parents shouldn’t be parents. Period. Domineering countries shouldn’t be countries. Period. Yet, both will probably always exist. I think it’s very possible to enjoy the olympics for it’s dedication to excellence , while criticizing politics, and bemoaning overbearing parents and ridiculing the treachery involved in some sport – all at the same time. Passion is passion and joy is joy. And the realization of both are often in full view in the olympics. I’ll always watch. I’ll also always counsel the parents of my children to allow the child’s passion to be their guide, not the parent’s. The world will never be simple. Neither will sport.
halincoh-Thanks. That last paragraph is IT.
Aristothenes and halincoh: I am so with you and thank you for your responses!
In response to the response:
“And isn’t it demeaning to suppose that young women in the free world are being forced by mean old men to compete? ”
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No, and especially not if it’s true. Of course, I didn’t say that.
To quote exactly ,”Old men pushing girls’ frail little prepubescent bodies far beyond their limits, causing serious injuries that last a lifetime.”
I apologize for the misunderstanding on my part. I interpreted that sentence as meaning that old men were being cruel to fragile young girls with no will of their own by indoctrinating them into the belief that the delicate flowers that they are must compete. Thus the old men are causing permanent damage to the fragile girls.
I also take away from this quote that you do consider girls “frail” and easily damaged.
Which I find both condescending and demeaning.
Hey, let’s get rid of that section 9 thing and keep our girls safe! After all, sports should only be for tough little boys!
Every sport at every level has its dangers.
“You can just as well get down on science because Marie Curie physically killed herself doing her research.
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That’s a very false analogy. Had Marie Curie been six years old and given a lump of radioactive material to play with by parents who knew it might be dangerous, and had she made absolutely no scientific progress for humanity and merely served to improve the ratings for network TV . . . then the situations might be similar.”
It is a false analogy and not one I was making. My point was that humans are compelled to strive to do what they consider to be great things and on the way may continue on heedless of personal injury – whether 6 or 60. This is true in science as much as it is in sports.
And I don’t think most of the athletes or their parents are concerned about TV ratings.
“Are you saying that their parents are incompetent and abusive?
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Incompetent, abusive, ignorant, self-serving, apathetic — there are many possibilities.”
WOW! That is quite the blanket judgment. I guess all those parents working two jobs and driving around for hours because their child actually wants to compete and pleads to take lessons and training should have their child taken away. Let’s round up Michael Phelps’ mother right now! He started training at 11yo and was in Olympic competition at 14yo and you know boys mature later than girls so he must be a mental and physical mess. Oh, right, he just won another gold medal tonight and the next hour qualified for another race by beating the Olympic record.
” Are you saying that by 11 or 12 they are too dumb to say that they don’t want to do it?
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Too dumb, too young, too indoctrinated, too eager to please, too ignorant of the long-term health effects — again, many possibilities.”
Again, with the blanket assumptions. You think all kids will get indoctrinated into something and go along with it? Some may but I r