Skepchick Quickies, 5.7
- The (not so) Thinking Moms’ (D)evolution’s Declaration.
- Are you worried you’re in a cult? Consult this handy guide. You may actually just be in a conga line. (From Andre.)
- Get your antifemininity out of my feminism.
- New “LaserSabre” is not a lightsaber and is not a toy. Not that you would think either. (From Critical Dragon1177.)
Get your antifemininity out of my feminism: I agree that telling other people they shouldn’t wear high heals is wrong. People should be able to call themselves what they want and wear what they want and not get hassled. What mystifies me is why anyone would ever want to wear high heals. They look painful, and from what I gather from the women I’ve talked to about it, they are painful.
In the interest of trying to keep @marilove and @Will from having their melted brains seep out of their ears I thought I’d get in here first to say;
Really? Are you fucking serious?
While I’m glad you are all for not telling others what they should or shouldn’t wear you don’t seem to be above calling those who say they like wearing makeup, let’s see what were the words, oh yeah shallow and insecure.
And then to go on as to why anyone, meaning NOT YOU, would wear something that you personally don’t value shows that you still do not get it.
Keep trying though, Geez.
And to clarify, Dave does not make me “uncomfortable”. I just think he is full of sexist bullshit.
I don’t mind vigorous disagreement with my opinions nor do I mind spirited name calling if you are so moved, but I have no idea how you pull “sexist” out of this. Even though the original article was by a woman about women my response was as gender-neutral as I could make it. Someone even quoted the central point below if you want to refresh your memory.
….I never called you any names. But what a nice way to utilize the tone argument. I am being SO mean!
And shocker! Once again you ignore me completely except to whine that I said I was tired of your sexist bulshit. (That is not bane calling. Are you 12?)
FOR THE THIRD FUCKING TIME, why do you keep ignoring the societal pressures placed on women and their looks? You have yet to answer this! WHY?
And surprise. You are unable to explain how clothes determine moral values. How shocked I am. You base your opinions of women based on their looks. How the fuck do you think that IS NOT sexist??? COME ON. You are not stupid. Stop digging yourself deeper
We like to wear heels. It’s that simple, even if you remain mystified.
Different people will find different things painful. The high heels I wear on occasion are perfectly comfortable (yay Naturalizer), but I never, ever wear flip-flops. With no support whatsoever, they are simply too painful for me to wear. Flip-flops are objectively bad for one’s feet and in my area, they are much more commonly worn than high heels on a daily basis.
I’ve heard rants against high heels but never rants against flip-flops. With flip-flops, people seem more willing to let it be a personal preference whether to wear them. With heels, there seems to be more of a need to tell those of us who wear them that we’re hurting ourselves. I can’t help but notice that flip-flops are a unisex shoe.
(I realize women sometimes get pressure to wear heels, and I want to be clear that I don’t agree with that either. Dressy flats are perfectly acceptable for formal occasions.)
“Different people will find different things painful. The high heels I wear on occasion are perfectly comfortable (yay Naturalizer), but I never, ever wear flip-flops. ”
I can’t stand flip-flops either. I see the practicality in them in getting from the beach or the pool to a shower, but beyond this they seem useless. As a cyclist I also see them as dangerous as they can get muddled up in the pedals and cause a wreck and when you do have that wreck your toes are completely exposed to injury. I cringe when I see a cyclist in flip-flops.
I have never met a woman who claimed to find high-heels comfortable, but I accept they might exist. Of course I live in a place where heels are completely impractical for six months out of the year so about the only time I encounter high heels is at weddings. I have noticed, however, most women who start the evening in heels are barefoot by the end. This doesn’t indicate comfort to me.
“I have never met a woman who claimed to find high-heels comfortable, but I accept they might exist.”
I do have to point out that in the very sentence that you quoted, I said that I find my high heels comfortable. I certainly don’t find all high heels comfortable, but I don’t find all shoes comfortable generally.
I’m perfectly aware that many women find any high heels painful, and they shouldn’t wear them any more than I should wear flip-flops. But I do have high heels that I can wear comfortably (generally kitten heels with good arch support), and I know I’m not alone.
davew quote from 5/1 quickies:
“I find close attention to appearance, grooming, and clothes on either gender very unattractive. It advertises a disconnection between them and the things I value such as working and playing outside. It is possible the dude in the Armani suit and manicure rode 20 miles on a mountain bike earlier in the day, but I doubt it. I’d much rather chat up the woman who whose dress looks like it spent time recently in a backpack.”
And your point is? What I do and do not find attractive has no bearing on what I feel people should be entitled to do. I find theism unattractive as well, but I am a firm believer in freedom of religion. I see no contradiction.
Your comments on that page clearly indicated that you valued people less if they did not dress like they had just come in from biking. Hassling people for wearing makeup and dressing nicely and then saying:
“People should be able to call themselves what they want and wear what they want and not get hassled.”
is my point.
You would a have a point if I had ever hassled anyone for wearing makeup. I haven’t unless you consider expressing an aesthetic preference in a forum “hassling”. If you do then we can agree to disagree on what hassling is.
All I said in essence was I value people more who share my values and there are clues to what people value in their appearance. This may make me a less fully developed human than someone who tries to value all other humans equally, but I’m not sure why it merits much more than “I disagree with you.”
I have a few of the same feelings as you. For instance, I don’t like heels or flip flop either since I know there can be health risks to both. One thing, though, is that this is probably not the best time to be having an depth discussion about the relative health benefits to different kinds of shoes or whatever. Women are under A LOT of scrutiny for how they dress, so it’s not surprising women here take it more personally than you would if someone told you they didn’t like your shoes. Probably no one has ever told you that you were a bad person, could not do a good job in work, or that your opinions didn’t count because of what kinds of shoes you wore.
Even if you don’t like high heels, sometimes it’s better just to focus on those social aspects regarding acceptance because the lack of that can have just as big an impact as bad shoes. I don’t mean you should NEVER talk about those things, but in the context of s.e. smith’s article it is probably not a very good response. Women are definitely responding in a way that shows that you are making some of them uncomfortable, so it is better to take a step back until you can see why and take it into account. You probably aren’t saying anything about heels that they haven’t heard before.
“Women are definitely responding in a way that shows that you are making some of them uncomfortable, so it is better to take a step back until you can see why and take it into account. ”
I think this is a very good suggestion. Thanks.
Why are you saying bullshit like “people who dress nicely just don’t share my values!” when what you ACTUALLY said was that you automatically assume they are shallow and vain? I mean, that IS what you said, right? Exactly, in fact. Why are you now hiding behind code words like “values”? Why not own your vain judgements? (Lol irony!)
But hey. Maybe instead you can explain how caring (or appearing to care) about one’s appearance indicates your moral value? In detail, please. What do values have to do with clothing?
And are you STILL ignoring the societal pressure that ALL women face when it comes to looks? Huh. Shocker!
It is still all about you. And your “values”.
The LaserSabre…what exactly IS it, then? The article only says what it isn’t. “Here’s a cool thing we made that is NOT a lightsabre and here’s a video showing how to NOT use it!” Huh?
I’m taking a wild guess here but a glass tube encased in plastic. I’ve seen “lightsabers” before online that were similar but used fiber optics or LEDs to make the light. Just a laser pointer wouldn’t stop after a couple of feet so it must have some type of tubing or such to make it look right.
I agree. It looks like a glass or plastic waveguide with a diffuse surface to allow some light to emit along the entire length.
I’m not sure how they get the power-up and power-down effect though. Something mechanical, I would guess.
It is a ridiculously powerful laser that can burn into flesh and set things on fire. Then they stick a tube over it.
There’s a link to the product page. There is a little more detail there.
Thanks for the link! I actually thought it did something. But no, seems not. Can’t play with it without risk of burning your friends, can’t take it to con as a cosplay item without risk of accidently blinding a stranger… a rather expensive “Oooh! Shiny!”
There’s a far more bitter controversy over the new energy-saving light sabers:
Hi, I’m glad you like that story about the “light Saber” I told you about enough to tell people about it here. Its cool isn’t it?
I find it almost embarassing to read what that Thinking Moms group advocates. I mean, really people?
They base their ideals on logical fallacies and on flawed studies? The stupid, it burns!
Good one on antifemininity. I can’t help but cringe, though, when I see women in high heels. But that’s only because I worry what it does to their feet.
Neat one on the LaserSabre.
But why not develope the Lasgun instead? Seems more practical. Might not really be legal, though.
I would imagine it would not be legal.
Not yet anyway!
The Artic seems to come close, it seems, in terms of capability.
Well they haven’t pasted any laws against laser guns, but maybe that’s because they don’t really exist yet.
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