Skepchick Quickies, 3.28


Jen is a writer and web designer/developer in Columbus, Ohio. She spends too much time on Twitter at @antiheroine.

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  1. I have some quibbles with the rhetorical fallacies graphic.
    I think there's a typo in the "Circular Logic" item.  Shouldn't it be "…if you support privacy protection"?
    I disagree with the example in "Appeal to Ridicule".  This is only a fallacy if the ridiculous comparison is a false analogy.  If the person (implied in the example) is making claims about god that are equally true of Santa or the Tooth Fairy, then the analogy is justified and the ridicule is waranted.  All the other items in the "Appeal to Emotions" are in fact fallacies because they are drawing in irrelevent emotions, such as fear,  pride, anger, warm fuzziness, hate or disgust, to bias the argument.  I'm not saying that "Appeal to Ridicule" is never a fallacy, just that the example is bad and the definition is flawed.  I think it should be "Misrepresenting the opponents argument…"   A better example would be one of Rush Limbaugh's statements about Susan Flack, or anything, really.
    I disagree with the definition of "Begging the Question".  That is the way it is commonly used, but what it really means is implicitly assuming the result of an argument as a premise for the same argument, a form of circular reasoning.  Which begs the question, what do you call the fallacy described and presented in the example?
    I loved the example for the "Design Fallacy".

    1. Oh heck yeah. This is why I just love people that make posts on sites, including news sites, where you can't comment 'publicly' back at what they put in there. The examples used for some of those are just… WTF?
      Appeal to common practice – Sorry, but this one cuts both ways. You don't get to say that bank X is OK because they cheated only 50 people out of their morgages, instead of 5,000, but, by the same token, you don't get to claim, like the right still does, that Acorn was a vast conspiracy against the American people, based on them doing things that ***where*** common practice. That either means that **all** banking institutions, and housing authorities, etc. are "out to destroy America", or what they where doing was being ignored because the system didn't consider those things sufficient to bother with, i.e., common.
      Appeal to Nature – Uh… This is just an appeal to personal ignorance, since the statement isn't even about what happens in actual nature, so.. its a bloody bad example. A better one might be GM foods being bad, somehow, because a scientist spent years working out exactly ***which*** gene would do something, as apposed to nature, where its random, and you have to just hope for the right outcome. Its still wrong, but its at least based on "nature", not some false version of reality, which doesn't describe what is being appealed to.
      Of course, the "ridicule" one. Mind, the problem with this one, in reality, and why the example is flawed, is that its usually subjective, much like the example used for Circular Logic. The problem with the idea that privacy isn't needed is that there are so damn many things people don't want, don't think, or can't imagine, other people doing, for every reason from just not liking the cats, and finding out you are a cat owner, to increasingly more serious things, that **everyone** has something they end up having to hide from other people, even if its just so they don't have to listen to the same stupid argument about why such and such is so and so, and you really need to buy/eat/etc. the thing.
      Division – True enough, but then when this is used its sort of like the accusation of lumping all religious together over something. The point is, "This is what the visible trend is, and the perception its creating, and I appose that", not, "They must all be like that!" Mind, given how many people have jumped ship and become independents, and even Democrats, over some of the recent idiocies, its also a self fullfilling prophecy…
      Burden of proof – Another case of the above "its natural, even though I don't have a clue what I am talking about!", argument. The "long cycle" is actually near the "bottom" of the curve, and the difference in tempurature expected is **lower** than what we are seeing, from it, but the argument is always presented as, "We are nearing the top end of the curve in solar activity, so it makes sense its getting warmer." This is like… the "I just put the freezer on defrost, so any minute now, we should be able to use it like an oven.", argument, I guess. lol In any case, as an example of burden of proof, is just totally useless, since the argument being made refutes itself.
      Circumstance Ad Homonem – Sorry, but, at bare minimum, there is grounds for "suspicion", assuming the only people with studies that say such a thing are the ones supporting it, so not exactly fallacy. The example used is, again, unlikely to be true though, since more than just cell companies studied EM. Not that the other "big" one would have helped the case. That one being global warming, where one side *is* being paid by people in the industries that want it to not be true, while the other side isn't, and they are reaching entirely different conclusions. But, that battle does give us a "real" example, if they had bothered to think of it – "All those scientists and alternative energy people want to prove global warming because of all the money they will make from new technology." All the evidence points to, in the short term, people losing money, and a lot of what is made being made by the energy industry itself, where they don't have their heads up their backsides, trying to pretend the problem doesn't exist, but, its one of the top arguments out there, that its all about someone else making all the money out of the 'controversy'.
      So, yeah, they should have thought a bit more carefully about examples. A lot of them actually promote fallacies, in the process of describing other fallacies.

      1. The appeal to nature has nothing to do with nature.  It's simply "This is the way things are, so this is the way things should be."
        IE, women have always been subserviant to men, therefore women should be subserviant to men, homosexuals have never been allowed to marry, therefore homosexuals should not be allowed to marry, etc.

        1. That's the appeal to antiquity, which they call the appeal to tradition. The appeal to nature is saying "this is natural, therefore it is good." For example, claiming that herbal medicine is superior to synthetic medicine because it is all natural.

    2. I think the problem may be that the maker of the infographic has learnt the logical fallacies but has not learnt formal logic. A couple of the examples display fundamental mistakes in logic.

    1. I own a hairdryer for the express purpose of putting plastic on my windows in the wintertime (it gets used for nothing else). I have lotion because when it's dry out during the winter it's actually painful if I don't use it. I shave my legs during cycling season because pulling a band-aid off hairy legs is painful. I shave my pits and ladybits because otherwise it's ITCHY D:
      Makeup (and the beauty routine in general) has never made sense to me, outside of "for theatre so they can see your eyes better" or "for special occasions because they're special".

      1. I put a little stuff in my hair because otherwise it's frizzy and annoying. I colour it because colour is fun and my natural colour is awful (my hair's been every colour of the rainbow). I put on lotion because I live in a forzen wasteland and I shave because I hate the feeling of body hair. Most cosmetic stuff I do for my own comfort. I do wear makeup, but it's for fun. I like having the ability to make myself look different. I used to not leave the house without makeup though, so I can see where they're coming from.

        1. I don't normally wear make up, because I'm lazy and that is valuable sleeping time wasted on trying to look pretty for people I work with, and who cares?  It is completely not a political statement for me. 
          I do wear make up for special occasions, when my band plays, and sometimes because I managed to drag my dead ass out of bed early and have the time.  I like make up, I just like sleeping more.
          Sloth > Vanity

          1. Yeah, laziness mostly wins out for me.  I also HATE having to wash make up off my face, especially mascarra, before I'm able to go to bed at night.  That was my least favorite activity, when I did wear makeup somewhat regularly.
            That said, I am jealous of women who are REALLY good at makeup application, and who are really creative with what they do.  Especially fun eyeshadows and stuff.

          1. Is 'pretentious' the same thing as 'pretending'?
            For me, if I can tell you're wearing makeup, I generally find you less attractive. Particularly if it's something unnatural, like ridiculously bright red lipstick. I've never understood that one; it just makes you look like a clown.
            But then I don't see the appeal of tattoos, either, and they also seem absurdly popular. I guess I'm just weird.

            So it's only pretending if you can tell they are wearing makeup?  It's not pretending if you can't tell?  You probably can't tell most of the time, you know that, right?
            It's fine if you don't find women who wear obvious makeup attractive, but to imply (which is what Ed did) that women who don't wear makeup are somehow better, just sits with me wrong.
            And this happens whenever this subject comes up.  Women immediately come out and have to brag about how they don't wear makeup, and then men come in and have to brag about how much they love women who don't wear makeup (when in general, I would be willing to bet that most men can't even tell when a woman is or isn't wearing makeup, especially if it's just a little blush or mascara and nothing else).

          3. Ed was the one who used the term, not me.
            Generally, I find women attractive as-is. The further they deviate from that, the worse they get, looks-wise. So yeah, if it's just a little whatever it was that you mentioned (this is the problem with leaving the reply box at the bottom of the screen even though I'm replying to something all the way at the top), and I can't tell, I don't care. It's when you get to things like bright red lipstick, or absurd amounts of whatever it is that goes around your eyes to the point where instead of emphasising them, it distracts from them, or tattoos, or horns, or a third arm, or whatever, that it bothers me.
            I'm bothered by the effect of makeup on a girl's looks, not the implications of the use of makeup about a girl's personality. It's not that she's altering her looks, it's that she looks, for lack of a better word, "wrong".

          4. Ugh. I spent about ten minutes on that, and still phrased it horribly. This is what happens when you get into complicated discussions at 2:30 AM.
            "Unnaturalising effect" probably works better in the penultimate sentence of my previous comment.

          5. @koberulz – we all have our personal preferences to what we find attractive, and that's totally fine.  I myself find a wide variety of people, of both sexes, attractive.  There is a woman here where I work that wears very minimal makeup.  She's rather pale, with dark hair.  Sometimes, she wears bright-red lipstick.  And it looks AMAZING on her.  I find it attractive.  You may not.
            Other women look great with no makeup.
            Honestly, I'm not too picky; I find a wide variety of people attractive.
            And I love tattoos, if done right and placed right, on certain men and women.

            We all have our tastes.
            But that's not really what I was talking about.

        1. And wasn't there an article (survey or study, I'm not sure which) which asked if men were able to tell when women were or weren't wearing makeup, and most men HAD NO CLUE?
          I need to find that.  My google-fu is failing today, though.

      2. I'd humbly recommend replacing that hair dryer with a heat gun.  You may find a better operating experience using a heat gun and the cost is about the same.  Plus it can do things that a hair dryer simply can't, such as make paint removal much easier.
        I'm the same with lotion and the winter time, my knuckles and elbows will crack and bleed if don't protect them from the dry winter air.

      3. Ok, on the "plastic on the windows" thing… I've been living in the south for a good chunk of my life (since 1990, minus five years in Kansas for college), so… what's with the plastic on the windows? I read about it in American Gods, but could not puzzle out its purpose.

        1. If you have windows that tend to let a lot of cold air leak in during the winter time in cold climates, then sealing a sheet of plastic over them can drastically reduce the amount of cold air that leaks in.  For modern multi-pane windows that are specially treated, sealed, and filled in their center with argon, kryton, or other inert gas: sealing them with a sheet of plastic adds no real benefit.
          You're more likely to need plastic on single pane windows, multi-pane windows that have a broken seal (the gas between the panes has been released), very old windows that have warped, or windows that have damaged casing.

  2. I find the entire concept of daily makeup/hair routines/etc incredibly ridiculous. Obviously priviledges those with the time to waste and money to spend so they can fit themselves into an arbitrary narrow definition of "attractive".
    Time spend gussying yourself up is time absolutely wasted, IHMO. Life is short. Sleep in. Read a book.

      Wow.  What a nasty attitude you hold for women who choose to do different things with their time!
      I don't wear makeup either because I'm pretty terrible at applying it, and I lack patience for it anyway, and I'd rather spend money on other things.  I'm also not a morning person and I'd rather sleep in than take time to apply makeup.

      But your attitude?  Is not helpful and in fact, your attitude is rude and nasty.  <b>You are not a better woman just because you don't wear makeup.</b>
      This, "I am better than you because I don't wear makeup!  You're a bad, bad woman for wearing makeup!' attitude is seriously uncalled for.
      Some women wear makeup because that's just what they are used to.  Or they find it fun.  There are many reasons.  A couple of good girl friends of mine are really into makeup.  They are experts at applying it, and are very creative — utilizing color and shading and different types of makeup (matte, glossy, whatever).  I am jealous of their talent and patience, really, because I lack both when it comes to makeup.
      Makeup application can be an art.  Just look at drag queens!  Some of it is incredibly intricate and amazing.  To do it well, you don't just slap it on; you need to know what colors compliment each other, and your skin town, and how to apply it correctly, and the best way to utilize shading…  It's not as easy as it seems (trust me, I've tried!).

      it's not my thing, and it may not be your thing, but your nasty attitude toward women who choose to wear makeup (for whatever reason) is seriously ridiculous, unhelpful, and uncalled for.
      What others choose to do with their time is none of your business.  And I'm sure you do plenty of time-wasting crap.  Like commenting on blogs about how much you hate makeup and look down on women who choose to wear it.  Seriously.  I'm sure you do plenty of shit that THEY would find a waste of time.  Glasses houses, and all.  And what's with this:  " Sleep in. Read a book."  You're making it seem like one cannot wear makeup, AND read a book or sleep in.  Seriously?  Maybe you're just terrible at time-management.
      And this goes to the other commenters here who have this haughty, "I don't wear makeup and I don't understand why women do!" attitude.  You're not the only one, clearly.
      This smacks of, "I am a better feminist because I do this or don't do this!" and it's seriously not cool.

    2. It's rather unfair to put every person who spends time on their appearance in the same bucket, isn't it?  
      Opinions on what is a waste and what isn't are all relative.  I find the idea of sleeping in to be a waste; the idea of spending thousands of dollars on home theaters/entertainment systems a waste; the idea of spending time and money on viewing sports events to be pointless.  I also choose to spend a significant amount of my time playing computer games and reading things on the internet.  I think that you could find a person who believes what you do with your free time a waste anywhere.  You may not be able to relate to how others spend their time, though I think it's important to remember that it is their time and if they choose to spend it on things you wouldn't, that's okay.

      1. RIGHT?!

        I mean, if that's what you want to do with your time, AWESOME!  But how she thinks sleeping in is somehow less of a waste of time than applying makeup, I don't know.  Ridiculous.  Basically, she thinks anything she doesn't enjoy is a waste of time.  Or maybe her disgust is only felt for women who choose to wear makeup, I don't know. It's not a good look, either way.

        1. I think it's easy to fall into the trap of
          "I don't find x to be worth my time."
          "x is a waste of time."
          "People who do x are wasting their time."
          I feel like it's a more healthy attitude to not worry too much about what others choose to spend their time on, provided that it's not harmful to others or themselves.  Though even a "harmful" clause could be problematic depending on how one interprets it.

          1. Those escaped characters are suppose to be the three dot "therefore" symbol.

    Surprise!  An article about makeup is posted, and we already have a rush of women trying to one-up each other. "I don't wear makeup!  Or blow dry my hair!  I am seriously the best feminist ever!"
    And we already have a man coming in and saying, "ALL RIGHT!  You're like my wife!  No pretense!"
    Because women who wear makeup are, what, strange, awful, pretentious creatures?!
    I am willing to bet that quite a few regular Skepchick commenters/readers wear makeup on a daily basis.  Way to make them feel welcome! (/s)

    1. I agree. It reminds me of the way I was treated in a Gender class because I looked to girly and the hatred I sometimes feel in the fat rights online community, great, so I used to a horrible person when I was thin and now I'm okay cause I'm fat (most people aren't like this, but it is a pattern I have come across).
      I don't wear make up. Almost never. And frankly, when I do put on make up it makes me nervous. And my boyfriend says I don't look as attractive which makes me more uncomfortable, of course. Frankly, I would really love to sometimes put on make up for fun because I like how it can change the perception people have of me. It's like dressing up sometimes. Of course the great thing would be if people could feel comfortable no matter what they wear and if they have make up on or not. But judging people by their fashion choices (which make up mostly is to me, too) is never very clever.

      1. Yep.  It's not very clever, and it just comes off as highly insecure.  It's bullying, plain and simple.
        I was hoping that I wouldn't see this sort of attitude from fellow Skepchicks, but I'm not really surprised that I did.

    2. Spot on, Marilove!
      I don't wear makeup to work because I'm lazy.  I do wear makeup when I go places outside of work because I like putting it on.  As you say, it's an art.  Is it necessary?  Probably not in more than some very specific situations.  But it can be fun and it can make women feel good about themselves, whether it's once in a while, never, or every day.  It gives me a little boost in self-esteem to get all dressed up and put on makeup, and I don't see a thing wrong with that.
      It does annoy me when women put makeup on while on public transportation, though I'm not sure why exactly.  Something about keeping your morning routine at home?  I don't know if that's fair of me or not and if anyone has opinions on this and it's not too far off-topic I'd love to hear them.  Definitely not cool while you're driving, of course.

        I try not to hate people who do that sort of stuff on the bus or whatever.  Taking public transportation is a pain in the ass and can be very time-consuming.  Maybe their child just took up too much time throwing a hissy fit and they ran out of time and didn't want to miss the bus. :)

    3. I'm a dude, so take that for what it's worth. I see make up as being analogous to dress clothes. I don't wear my tux to the gym or the grocery store, so it seems strange to me when I see women in those settings with a full face of make up. It's like having a society full of Barney Stinsons or Jack Donaghys. I was also listening to a podcast where the host said it took her a while in a relationship before she felt comfortable letting her boyfriend see her without makeup. That just baffles me.
      If you dress up every day, because you enjoy it, nothing wrong with that. If you wear make up every day, because you enjoy it, knock yourself out. If you do these things because you feel obligated to… Something about that seems off to me.

      1. People do all kinds of things because they feel obligated to; there's nothing off about it. If you feel obligated to wear makeup and wear it for no other reason, so what? Who cares why? The people you should feel off about are the people who make women feel obligated to wear their makeup. And maybe that's what you meant. I'm just clarifying a thought I had inspired by your post.

    4. The subject of whether or not to wear makeup is introduced, people say whether or not they wear makeup. Abbie's comment was uncalled-for, yes, but having a go at people for stating they don't wear makeup is, as far as I can see, no different than people having a go at those who do.

        What?  You might want to re-read what I wrote.
        I wasn't having a go at her for choosing not to wear makeup.  I even stated *I* don't wear makeup, for pickle's sake.
         I don't care if she wears makeup or chooses not to.  That is totally up to her, and I honestly don't give a shit either way.
        But she clearly cares a LOT if other choose to wear makeup, and it's clear to me that she looks down on women who do.  THAT is what I was commenting on.  That attitude is not cool and it needs to be addressed.
        It's just as bad as lambasting a woman because she chooses not to breastfeed.  Or because a woman chooses to be a stay at home mom.  This "I am a better woman/feminist than you because I do/don't do this!" attitude is NOT helpful. It is harmful.  It is wrong.  It needs to stop.

        1. If you're talking specifically about Abbie, then yeah. Your comment does read, though, like it's intended more broadly, and I'm not seeing the same attitude from anyone else commenting here.
          Aren't there actual benefits to breast-fed children? That makes it a bit of a different case, IMO (although there's a difference between a recommendation of altered behaviour and actual condemnation).

          1. My second comment was directed at the general tendancy for women to post "I don't wear makeup!  Or do this beauty routine!" whenever such subjects come up.  It comes up as, "I am superior becuase I didn't fall for society's expectations in regards to beauty!" Of course, these same people generally do other things (like shave, as several mentioned).  Yet they act like their choices are still somehow better, or somehow outside of society's expectations — when they aren't.  Not really.  It's not like their own choices live inside a vacuum or something.
            This kind of thing happens <i>every time</i> this subject comes up.  Women come out in hordes trying to prove how awesome they are because they choose not to wear makeup.
            And yeah, I very much dislike it. 

            Also, it just comes off as bragging.
            This is what happens, every time:
            An article about makeup is posted.
            Women immediately come out to brag about how they don't wear makeup and how they  just can't understand how some women choose to wear makeup.
            Men immediately come out to brag about how they love women who don't wear makeup.
            They all pat themselves on their backs, because clearly they have avoided society's beauty expectations!  (When they probably really haven't.)

  4. That makeup article is absurd. If you don't know why you do something, not doing it for a while isn't going to tell you why you were doing it before. You may have new reasons to do it in the future, but those don't work retroactively.
    That they thought deodorant was a beauty product sums it up for me.
    It's the sort of article that makes sense if everyone is doing whatever it is they've decided to stop doing, or there's an actual law in place, and they're protesting, or something. But, as they themselves found, plenty of women don't wear makeup. It all amounts to 'two people had a mindless habit, then dropped it.' I'm a guy, so maybe there's something I'm missing, but I don't see the big deal.

      I found the deodorant thing weird, too.  I live in Arizona.  If I went without deodorant, it would not be pretty.  (I sweat a fair amount.  I know some people don't sweat that much, or when they do it's not all that smelly.  LIke my mom.  She doesn't have to use deodorant.  She sucks.  She also doesn't shave her legs because her hair is so fine and pale.  Seriously, she sucks. lol.)

  5. I'm going to guess that the women who gave up makeup are also non TV watching vegitarians with glutin intollerence and a mild allergy to red wine who never eat non organic produce. And no, I did n not read the article, I'm just guessing.  :-@

      1. C’mon, guessing is rarely productive; and I was only going for some cheap humor. Over the years whenever certain topics have come up here, such as watching TV, eating preferences, beer, wearing makeup, music, or whatever there’s often a chorus of people who proudly proclaim that they do not watch, eat, wear, do, this that or the other with the clear implication that their stance is somehow morally, ethically or intellectually superior. That is the stereotype I was trying to poke fun at.
        Explanation…, humor…, fail… .

        1. Okay, so I THOUGHT that's what you were getting at, thus my comment about people who like to proudly brag about not owning TV's. :)

    1. Yeah, I don't wear makeup, and I'm not all that crunchy.  I'm just lazy, really.
      That said, I do wonder if these people are the same type of people who say, "I don't even OWN a tv!" whenever the subject comes up (even though they will catch up on America's Got Talent on Hulu that evening).

      1. I shave my head about four or five times a week and I'm convinced that when it comes to time and maintenance I spend substantially less time and effort having no hair to bother with than those sorry folk saddled with head hair. So you’re welcome to join Elyse and myself any time!

        1. Oh, man, no.  I have such a round face with big, fat chipmunk cheeks.  I already look like a tomato when I get even slightly overheated and my face turns bright red!

          Also, I have a lot of hair.  It's really thick, and very long (seriously, I need a hair cut).  And I spend ZERO time on it.  I am lucky to have very healthy, slightly wavy hair (that tends to get straighter as it grows and gets heavier; the shorter it is, the wavier it is). 
          This is my morning routine:
          Wake up.  Jump in the shower.  Shampoo.  Wash out shampoo.  Put conditioner in.  Slather body in soap while conditioner soaks for a minute.  Rinse.  Maybe shave (once or twice a week, usually on the weekend though).  Jump out, dry off.  Brush teeth.  Brush hair (sometimes I do this at a stop light in the car lol).  Leave.
          When my hair dries, I might stick it in a ponytail if it's bothering me.
          But, in general,  from getting out of bed and then out of the door, it generally takes me 15 minutes.  Tops.  Haha.
          This has more to do with my huge dislike of mornings than anything else, though.  Sometimes I wish I was talented at doing fun things with my hair, but I have never had the patience (just like with makeup!).

          1. @Brian G — Hah!  That's hilarious.  I have way, way too much thick hair that tends to be on the dry side to be ablet use an all-in-one.  Otherwise I totally would, lol!

  6. I loved the article about not wearing makeup, shaving, jewelry etc for a short time period. 

    Sometimes,  I don't know why I do things (is it for me or is it because I feel it's expected?), and I think an excersize like that sure would give lots of folks the tools they need to reflect and decide whether or not something feels authentic to them. 
    Personally, I tried the make-up thing and I just didn't like it. I was hyper aware of stuff being on my face, even if it's just mascara, and was constantly rubbing and smearing. So, I don't wear any, even on fancy occasions. I'm just happier that way. 

    I also tried not shaving, oooh boy, I hated not shaving. I felt itchy all the time, and I was always scratching and pulling out hairs (sometimes leaving little scars). So, I shave, and I'm quite happy about it. 

    I tried to wear heels, but gave up when I realized some people just can't walk in heels without falling :P. I don't feel like I'm missing out at all. 

    There are certain things I love, though: mani/pedis, chanderlier earrings, my butterfly necklace, lacey underpants, a cute outfit. And, well, I like them because they make me feel good, and wearing/doing these thing feels authentic, as in I'm not doing it to please anyone but myself. But, folks are always welcome to take pleasure in my appearance if they like. ;)

  7. I went  without makeup for my 20s and 30s and started wearing make up  more often in my 40s. I now wear it for social situations but not for daily running errands, etc. I am now about to turn 60, so my skin has changed (though I am told I still look  younger than my age) with more lines, age spots, etc. As a younger woman with dark hair, eyebrows and eyelashes, I looked fine without makeup. I also went through a brief period of not shaving legs or arms (during a hippie-ish period in my late teens, early 20s) but decided that wasn't for me and now shave. Nowadays, I find that foundation, eye shadow, blusher and lipstick enhance my appearance and disguise a bit of the aging stuff. I do use anti-wrinkle products and daily sunblock…so my skin is pretty decent for my age. I have rarely worn heels, even though I am short, and don't intend to wear them now. I also wear my nails short and colorless…the shortness because I play guitar, and the lack of color because of the fumes from nail polish and polish remover have adverse effects on my severely asthmatic lungs. I wear my hair short, but do use some color and have it professionally cut. I think that make-up and other beauty routines are a personal choice that may change during different times of your life. And frankly, if I could afford it, I would have plastic surgery to freshen up my face. We live in an agist society and sometimes looking your youngest and best is a survival strategy (health permitting, I do some performing as a singer songwriter….with makeup on!!!). 

    1. I think you make a good point about tastes changing throughout one's life. Come to think of it, I've had a lot of changes when it comes to perferred personal appearance, and I suppose they will just keep on coming.  And agism is terrible. :( 

  8. I am slightly concerned about the article about living alone is a risk factor for depression because I have had so many problematic roommates and therefore, I want to live alone. 

      Try not to take it so personally.  I'm 30 and have lived alone since I was 23 or so.  Before that, I had a roommate I didn't particularly like, before that I lived with an abusive boyfriend, and before that I was back at home, living in a hometown I loathed.
      I much prefer living alone.  Much.
      In fact, I LOVE living alone.  Love love love love.  Someone elsewhere, I think at Jezebel where this was also posted, said something interesting:  Maybe it has less to do with living alone, and more to do with how financially stressful it can get.  You don't really have a safety net of someone else, ya know?  You are the one that has to pay all the bills.  That in itself can cause a lot of anxiety.  I know that's MY main source of anxiety and even depression, and not so much that I am alone.
      Just make sure to always have a good support group, both friends and family, and maybe a pet. 

  9. All the articles were really interesting.
    I certainly have gone outside without makeup on and just spent the last 3 hours making lunch with my friend and both of us weren't wearing makeup. (We are both in our early 20's). I wear makeup to special occasions, work because I think it is more professional and when I want to. I shave legs, lady bits and armpits because I have very sensitive skin and it gets incredibly itchy when I do not shave. I wash my face daily and mosturize because it also gets very sensitive. Everyone has different skin, different needs, and desires. Makeup is something that I wear for enjoyment, I do not do my nails, wear heels or do anything fancy with my hair. I think as long as you do not percieve it as the keystone for attractiveness that is what matters most.

  10. I've long been mildly curious whether I'm unusual as a male who finds that any makeup on a woman makes her less attractive. More recently I've started wondering if makeup can be applied so subtly that I'm unaware it is being used & actually improve the woman's looks.

    1. I seem to remember someone discussing on a podcast long ago that they could always tell when someone was wearing a toupee.  In fact, I think this is called the Toupee Fallacy as a result.
      (I don't remember who or when or what podcast, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I think somehow birds and monkeys were involved.)

  11. You also need to be clear on definitions.  Years ago a friend went back to New York to visit family.  When she was telling me about the trip she laughed that "not wearing any make-up" there meant only a little bit of base and only a little bit of rouge and only a little bit of eyeshadow and…

  12. I wear minimal makeup, but what I do wear I'd be reluctant to go without, unless I'm just going to the gym and will sweat it off anyway. I use an eyebrow pencil to thicken my over-plucked brows, concealer for the dark circles under my eyes, and powder to keep my oily skin from shining. Except for possibly the eyebrows, I don't think I'd be recognized as wearing makeup.
    If I'm dressing up for something, I'll probably add eyeliner and a subtle lip color, but I think most lipsticks look garish on me because I am so pale.

    1. I also have dark circles under my eyes.  They can get pretty bad when I'm really tired or stressed or sick.  I've had people ask me if I've been punched!

      So I wear thick rimmed glasses to hide them haha.

  13. If you want to see some super awesome and really impressive things done with makeup, follow Sugarpill Cosmetics. This is not your typical office-face, or your typical going-out face either! These are people doing things with makeup usually reserved for music videos and cinema. It's -awesome-. http://www.facebook.com/sugarpillcosmetics
    She once posted a video of a drag queen getting ready and the transformation was absolutely astounding.

  14. Ugh, that makeup article annoys me for so many reasons…
    First off, there's nothing special about not wearing makeup. Women do not go into states of panic if they're forced outside without applying makeup. That sounds like some bullshit sexist stereotype.
    Also, the idea that not wearing makeup is a sign of being superior and strong willed or whatever pisses me off. Women do not just apply makeup because they're insecure or something.
    Of course, there are women who wear makeup because they feel like they have to and women who dye their hair or get surgery just to fit an ideal of beauty and other things like that, even when they don't necessarily like doing those things. And that I do have a problem with, because you should never do something to please someone else that you really don't want to do or that's inconvenient to you. I think that's basically what this makeup article is trying to say.
    But they're failing really damn hard, because they're thinking that makeup/ hair styling/ hair dying/ shaving are to blame. They aren't. The only thing that's to blame is the idea that you are obligated to do these things. Thing is though, ideas like that aren't limited to just beauty, or even just women. Going after people who wear makeup makes it sound like you don't understand what you're talking about. especially since "A real feminist doesn't wear makeup!!!!" is essentially the same as "A real girl likes to wear makeup and be pretty!!!" You're still telling people what to be.
    Anyways, things like this just really annoy me, especially since I'm victim to them A LOT. I don't wear makeup because I'm just not good at it, unless I'm bored and feel like playing with it. However, I do dye my hair multiple, bright, unnatural colors, and I actually really like wearing high heels.
    And I get ridiculous amounts of shit for it. Dyed hair tends to be classed as "Insecure" or "rebellious", especially when you start doing colors of the rainbow. High heels are AWFUL UNPRACTICAL TORTURE DEVICES that I clearly only wear to attract men.
    But, you know… I actually like those things. I'm an artist, and I enjoy making things look unusual, or colorful, or just plain interesting. And I like using my own body as a sort of canvas for that. I like to dye my hair red and purple and blue and style it so it's interesting. I like to wear knee-high aviator boots with 4 inch heels, because honestly they make me feel like I look like a complete badass, and also they're pretty comfortable. I put in colored contacts because they're neat looking, and on the rare instances that I wear makeup I'll go with purple eyeliner and yellow glittery eyeshadow and mascara for the same reason. I don't do any of that to fit someone else's standards or because I feel like I'm obligated to, or because I'm insecure about how I look naturally, or conversely, because I'm trying to defy societal standards or be 'unique' or rebellious or any of the explanations that people try to give. I kinda just like doing that stuff.
    In regards to some of the other things brought up in the article and comments there… not shaving? Fine if you don't want to, but I like being totally smooth. The one woman in the comments who gloated about not wearing a bra? Uh… it's not entirely an option for some of us. I recently discovered that I measure in at F cup,  and while finding bras can be a pain in the ass when you aren't A through C, wearing a bra is infinitely more comfortable and pleasant than going without as you get bigger. Gravity is a cruel mistress and if you don't have good support, any sudden movements can make it feel like your boobs are trying to rip themselves off your chest. Not fun. And deoderant? Yeah, I think I'd rather not smell like I haven't bathed in a year.
    I kinda hope that this article was posted to be ridiculed, not agreed with.

    1. First, excellent comments!  I agree with you.
      "I kinda hope that this article was posted to be ridiculed, not agreed with."
      Most things that are posted in the quickies aren't posted to be ridiculed or agreed with.  They are posted to be discussed, and even torn apart.  For the most part, anyway. :)

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