You know what your life was missing up until this very moment? Two men in their late 30s wearing clown make-up over their goatees rapping about rainbows. That’s right: it’s Insane Clown Posse’s newest video and it is fucking awesome.

ICP posit many fascinating questions here, and in this post I will attempt to answer some of them for Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope. Don’t worry, guys! I’m not a scientist. I know you don’t like them “motherfuckers,” as per your new song. I’m just a concerned citizen hoping to quell your insatiable curiosity about nature.

While watching that video for the first time, I couldn’t help but picture the brainstorming session between J and Shaggy that led to this masterpiece. And upon finishing the video, I couldn’t help but imagine an alternate universe in which one of the ICP – probably the fat one, but let’s just say Shaggy, to pick one at random since I can’t tell which is which – is actually intelligent. I’ve crafted a script based on that universe, which you can enjoy below. The full lyrics follow.

SCENE: SHAGGY 2 DOPE’s family room

SHAGGY 2 DOPE and VIOLENT J sit on the sofa eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and drinking milk.

VIOLENT J (to SHAGGY 2 DOPE)
Yo Shaggy. You know what I don’t get?

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
What?

VIOLENT J
Giraffes, man.

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
What?

VIOLENT J
Yeah, you know. Like their long necks and shit.

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
Actually Violent J, the giraffe’s long neck is the natural result of millions of years of evolution. While it was once thought that a longer neck gave an animal an advantage due to the ability to reach tall food sources during times of drought, these days there’s also a fairly strong case to be made for the idea that males with longer, stronger necks were better able to win “necking” fights with other males, thereby enabling them to reproduce and give way to offspring that shared their traits.

VIOLENT J
That’s some crazy shit Shaggy.

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
Which part?

VIOLENT J
Saying that baby giraffes look like their dads and shit. That’s gotta be a miracle. Yo I have a dope rhyme about it, it goes like

Tears of a Clown: Violent J's boyVIOLENT J (rapping)
Shaggy’s little boys look just like Shaggy/And my little boy looks just like daddy

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
Oh Violent J, how you amuse. First of all, “Shaggy” doesn’t actually rhyme with “daddy.” Second of all, our sons’ resemblance to us is due to genetics.

VIOLENT J
Bitch what you talkin about.

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
Genetics is the science of heredity. You see, you have genes inside you, and those genes were combined with your baby mama’s genes to create offspring that resembles both of you in color and shape. That’s why a long-necked giraffe is likely to give birth to a long-necked baby giraffe, and why your son has a similar face to you.

VIOLENT J
Aw you mean like how he’s got clown face paint on and shit?

VIOLENT J’S SON peers into the room sullenly through the sliding glass doors that lead to the backyard. His face is covered in clown paint.

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
Naw man. You put that on him this morning, like you do every day.

VIOLENT J
Oh.

OUTSIDE, a rainstorm erupts. VIOLENT J’S SON is drenched, his clown paint face slowly melting off onto the ground.

VIOLENT J (pointing OUTSIDE)
Well what about the weather, right? Now that shit is a mother fucking miracle.

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
On the contrary, we know enough about weather patterns to fairly accurately predict what will happen, both on a short-term scale of day to day weather and on a long-term scale like the Earth’s climate millions of years ago.

Rainbow UnicornVIOLENT J
Yeah, but what about fucking rainbows?

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
Violent J, you should never try to fuck a rainbow. It is in fact an optical phenomenon caused by light reflecting off the back of raindrops, showing us the full spectrum of visible light. You can never touch it, and it will always appear to move away from you the closer you get.

VIOLENT J
Aw but what about

SHAGGY 2 DOPE (interrupting)
Leprechauns don’t exist.

VIOLENT J
Motherfucker!

A long, thoughtful pause follows as VIOLENT J processes this new information.

VIOLENT J
Shaggy?

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
Yes, Violent J?

VIOLENT J
What about . . . what about magnets? I see ‘em on the fridgerator. I see ‘em and I just get so angry. They just stick there when they should fall down. WHY DON’T THEY FALL DOWN SHAGGY?? THE SCIENTISTS WON’T TELL ME. THEY LIE! THEY LIE!

VIOLENT J breaks down sobbing. SHAGGY 2 DOPE holds him, rocking him gently.

SHAGGY 2 DOPE (in a soothing tone)
A magnet is just an object that can attract and repel other magnets and some metals by producing a magnetic field. It’s invisible.

VIOLENT J (screaming)
It’s magic!

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
No, Violent J. It’s science. In the 19th century, a scientist named James Clerk Maxwell discovered that magnetism and electricity are like two sides of the same coin. All our electronic equipment works thanks to the fact that we understand magnets. Even the Earth itself is a giant magnet! The center of our planet is chock full of molten rock with magnetic elements like iron, so we’re surrounded by our own magnetosphere. When particles fly at us from the sun, known as solar winds, and pass through the magnetosphere, we see the northern lights, also known as aurora borealis. This breathtaking display could once be considered a miracle or just a strange mystery. Now that we know its true cause, its beauty only deepens.

VIOLENT J silently contemplates this.

VIOLENT J
There’s one other thing, Shaggy.

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
Yes, Violent J?

VIOLENT J
You see . . . well . . .

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
Go on, Violent J. Remember, there’s no such thing as a stupid question.

VIOLENT J
Okay. Well, see, I was in San Francisco last month.

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
Yes, go on.

pelicanVIOLENT J
And I saw this pelican. I . . . I gave it my Filet-O-Fish sammich. And . . . and . . . it tried to eat my cell phone.

VIOLENT J begins quietly crying once again.

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
Okay . . . and?

VIOLENT J
I . . . ran away.

SHAGGY 2 DOPE
I don’t understand, Violent J.

VIOLENT J (whispers dramatically)
It was a miracle.

CLOSE-UP on SHAGGY 2 DOPE’s face, as a single tear rolls down his cheek.

FIN

If magic is all we’ve ever know
Then it’s easy to miss what really goes on
But I’ve seen miracles in every way
And I see miracles everyday
Oceans spanning beyond my sight
And a million stars way above em at night
We don’t have to be high to look in the sky
And know that’s a miracle opened wide
Look at the mountains, trees, the seven seas
And everything chilling underwater, please
Hot lava, snow, rain and fog
Long neck giraffes, and pet cats and dogs
And I’ve seen eighty-five thousand people
All in one room, together as equals
Pure magic is the birth of my kids
I’ve seen shit that’ll shock your eyelids
The sun and the moon, and even Mars
The Milky Way and fucking shooting stars
UFOs, a river flows
Plant a little seed and nature grows
Niagara falls and the pyramids
Everything you believed in as kids
Fucking rainbows after it rains
there’s enough miracles here to blow your brains
I fed a fish to a pelican at Frisco bay
It tried to eat my cell phone, he ran away
And music is magic, pure and clean
You can feel it and hear it but it can’t be seen

Music is all magic
(Are you a believer in miracles)
You can’t even hold it
(Do you notice and recognize miracles)
it’s just there in the air
(Are you a believer in miracles)
Pure motherfucking magic Right?
This shit’ll blow your fucking mind
(Do you notice and recognize miracles)

Music is a lot like love, it’s all a feeling
And it fills the room, from the floor to the ceiling
I see miracles all around me
Stop and look around, it’s all astounding
Water, fire, air and dirt
Fucking magnets, how do they work?
And I don’t wanna talk to a scientist
Y’all motherfuckers lying, and getting me pissed
Solar eclipse, and vicious weather
Fifteen thousand Juggalos together
And I love my mom for giving me this
Time on this planet, taking nothing for granted
I seen a caterpillar turn into a butterfly
Miracles ain’t nothing to lie
Shaggy’s little boys look just like Shaggy
And my little boy looks just like daddy
Miracles each and every where you look
And nobody has to stay where they put
This world is yours for you to explore
there’s nothing but miracles beyond your door
The Dark Carnival is your invitation
To witness that without explanation
Take a look at this fine creation
And enjoy it better with appreciation
Crows, ghosts, the midnight coast
The wonders of the world, mysteries the most
Just open your mind, and it ain’t no way
To ignore the miracles of every day

(Are you a believer in miracles)
Magic everywhere in this bitch
(Do you notice and recognize miracles)
it’s all around you, you don’t even know it
(Are you a believer in miracles) Shit’s crazy
(Do you notice and recognize miracles,
So many miracles, the magic miracles)

Are you a believer in miracles
Do you have time for the miracles
Do you notice and recognize miracles
So many miracles, the magic miracles
Are you a believer in miracles
Do you have time for the miracles
Do you notice and recognize miracles
So many miracles, the magic miracles
Are you a believer in miracles
Do you have time for the miracles
Do you notice and recognize miracles
So many miracles, the magic miracles
Are you a believer in miracles
Do you have time for the miracles
Do you notice and recognize miracles
So many miracles, the magic miracles

Rebecca Watson

Rebecca Watson

Rebecca leads a team of skeptical female activists at Skepchick.org and appears on the weekly Skeptics' Guide to the Universe podcast. She travels around the world delivering entertaining talks on science, atheism, feminism, and skepticism. There is currently an asteroid orbiting the sun with her name on it. You can follow her every fascinating move on Twitter or on Google+.

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356 Comments

  1. Profile photo of Sunioc
    April 8, 2010 at 6:53 am —

    I was never a big fan of ICP, but holy shit that’s a horrible song.

  2. Profile photo of Xanxia
    April 8, 2010 at 7:33 am —

    … Wow. That was painful.

    “Just open your mind, and it ain’t no way
    To ignore the miracles of every day”
    It’s like the incredibly dim-witted musical counterpoint to (and validation of) Tim Minchin’s “If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out”.

    Also:
    “And I don’t wanna talk to a scientist
    Y’all motherfuckers lying, and getting me pissed”
    [ citation needed ]

  3. Profile photo of Waffleness
    April 8, 2010 at 7:45 am —

    I saw this video on another website and immediately thought it would appear on skepchick! Even the magnet line made the title of the article, perfect :)

    And yes I agree, it is a horrible song. Nice script by the way

  4. Profile photo of Nick Farrantello
    April 8, 2010 at 8:08 am —

    It is a miracle that two middle aged white guys in clown makeup can make money in the wrap industry. It falls well within test parameters that this song is so bad.
    I agree, nice script.

  5. Profile photo of Tortorific
    April 8, 2010 at 8:08 am —

    Magnets that’s fucking special relativity! When shit is moving it contracts motherfucking time and space and literally interacts with a different universe. With just normal electric charges positive attracts negative, special relativity tells us there is no motherfucking difference between uniform motion and no motion but when you have changes in motion you change the motherfucking fabric of space. When you’ve got two lots of accelerating charges they see different universes depending on which way they are moving, they see more of one charge and will be attracted or repulsed depending on how they are accelerating. If you get some crazy shit with lots of rotating electrons usually the electrons pair up and cancel each other out but some weird fucking metals have extra unpaired electrons and when they all orbit the same way they all distort the universe in the same way and you get a motherfucking magnetic field. BAM

    Seriously now tell me that isn’t cooler than magic. I am a scientist (a physicist you may have guessed) so I’m probably lying.

    • Profile photo of livewareproblem
      October 19, 2012 at 6:55 am —

      I am late to the party but, wow, motherfucker, that is some crazy-ass explanation right there! I am gonna read this to my kids when they ask how magnets work.
      In all honesty, that is a cool and succinct description. Special relativity, right? Amazing. That is how a vector field works. I have tried for years to wrap my head around it.
      Oh, and That Song is utter BS. Glad we don’t have too many Juggalos over here.

  6. Profile photo of Zapski
    April 8, 2010 at 8:35 am —

    Some days I’m so glad that I consciously ignore the pop-culture world. The only “downside” is a persistent feeling of superiority over my fellow humans.

    That said, I love the conversation you imagined, Rebecca. Pure brilliance.

  7. Profile photo of exarch
    April 8, 2010 at 8:41 am —

    I may be paraprasing a bit here, but:
    ICP:I have a lot of questions. But I don’t want to ask the people who could give me the answer, because that’ll make me angry.

  8. Profile photo of jennymurphy
    April 8, 2010 at 9:02 am —

    Thanks for starting my morning off with a good hearty giggle. Loved the script, I just read something about a local theater holding auditions for this summers Fringe festival, I think this would be perfect material. :-)

  9. Profile photo of The Howling Fantods
    April 8, 2010 at 9:02 am —

    Wonder if any Juggalos are on Skepchick…? Somehow I doubt it.

  10. Profile photo of Matthew Francis
    April 8, 2010 at 9:04 am —

    I am a physics professor, and I am delurking to announce that in the future, I am going to liberally sprinkle the word “motherfucker” into my lectures on magnetism.

  11. Profile photo of delphi_ote
    April 8, 2010 at 9:06 am —

    Your kids look like you. Truly a mysterious miracle for the ages! Science totally been lying about that shit.

  12. Profile photo of DcTurner
    April 8, 2010 at 9:08 am —

    *wipes tear from eye*

    Fuckin’ magnets… damn straight.

    I want this played at ma’ funeral. Now where’s ma’ Faygo.

  13. Profile photo of Rebecca Watson
    April 8, 2010 at 9:26 am —

    @Tortorific: Put that to a sick beat and you have yourself a hit, my friend!

    @exarch: Yeah, that pretty much sums it up.

  14. Profile photo of VoxMachina
    April 8, 2010 at 9:33 am —

    “Hey kids, pay attention in 6th grade science class, or you’ll end up like these dumbasses!”

    I had no idea these guys are still around. They were as much of a joke eleven years ago.

  15. Profile photo of Rebecca Watson
    April 8, 2010 at 9:37 am —

    @jennymurphy: You have my permission to use this script for any noncommercial purpose you’d like, especially if it gets recorded. That would probably make my year.

  16. Profile photo of jtradke
    April 8, 2010 at 9:38 am —

    I am immobilized by my discovery that these are platinum-selling recording artists.

  17. Profile photo of faith
    April 8, 2010 at 9:41 am —

    @exarch:
    I am going to amend to say,

    “I have a lot of questions. But I don’t want to ask the people who could give me the answer, because I might not understand the answer and that’ll make me angry.“

  18. Profile photo of Expatria
    April 8, 2010 at 9:55 am —

    Surely, the persistence of the ICP is one of the clearest signs that we’re living in the end times, no?

    I can think of no other explanation.

  19. Profile photo of porlob
    April 8, 2010 at 10:16 am —

    I know it’s a just shitty song, but this really is a fantastic encapsulation of antiscientific thought. “I don’t know how something works, so I’m just going to sit in awe over how miraculous it is… BUT DON’T TELL ME HOW IT WORKS! It’s arrogant to think that a mere human can comprehend all these badass motherfuckin’ things in this bitch”…

    And wow is it a bad song.

  20. Profile photo of movingshadow
    April 8, 2010 at 10:37 am —

    Do yourself a favour and watch the infomerical for the gathering of the juggalos, I’ve never laughed so hard in my life

  21. Profile photo of Sam Ogden
    April 8, 2010 at 10:39 am —

    Man, I have lived such a sheltered life. I’ve never seen some shit that shocked my eyelids.

  22. Profile photo of frisbeetarian
    April 8, 2010 at 10:40 am —

    Wow, I didn’t know Rush Limbaugh and Glen Beck performed together. It’s a miracle.

  23. Profile photo of sexysecularist
    April 8, 2010 at 11:00 am —

    Dear Insane Clown Posse:

    Couplets stopped being cool in rap right around 1992, when the rapping community discovered that using other rhyme structures made stuff suck a lot less. I’m siding with Eminem in this feud.

  24. Profile photo of porlob
    April 8, 2010 at 11:19 am —

    It is kind of telling that the only thing mentioned in this song as an object of aggression or derision is the very people who look into those mysteries to try to help us better appreciate them.

  25. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 11:19 am —

    every once in a while I see someone with an ICP tattoo and I weep quietly to myself.

    @sexysecularist: yes!

  26. Profile photo of jtradke
    April 8, 2010 at 11:30 am —

    @sexysecularist: The comparison to Eminem is apt because while his subject matter is often similar to ICP’s (violent, angry, self-important, etc.), he’s actually, you know, talented.

  27. Profile photo of sexysecularist
    April 8, 2010 at 11:39 am —

    @mikerattlesnake:

    I spent the last 38 minutes listening to Dre, Snoop, Em, and Tupac to make up for that ridiculous clowning.

    “Pure motherfucking magic, right?”

  28. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 8, 2010 at 11:41 am —

    The ICP can go fuck themselves in every manner conceivable. I deal with adolescents who get into all manner of trouble running from home and engaging in very risky behaviors. Many of these teenagers claim to be gang members and say they belong to ICP. This is a real gang issue and in the name of ICP people commit real nasty crimes and destroy their own lives and the lives of others. I really don’t find anything associated with gang activity or the ICP funny at all and find the use of an ICP video, even as a counter point humor vehicle, pretty much full of lose.

  29. Profile photo of jthewonderllama
    April 8, 2010 at 11:51 am —

    Fucking awesome, Rebecca. However, I hope your post doesn’t spark a culture war between juggalos and skeptics. While I’m aware that every single ICP fan is an amazingly stupid and pathetic human being, they are still capable of violence. Quite frankly, they frighten me.

  30. Profile photo of sexysecularist
    April 8, 2010 at 11:59 am —

    @jthewonderllama: Why can’t there be more violent fans of GOOD music? Where is the decency?

  31. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 12:05 pm —

    @James Fox: But fucked up kids will associate themselves with all sorts of music/games/movies/ideals/role models that appeal to their mindset and extrapolate negative messages (often portrayed in a specific context and sometimes ironically or hyperbolically) into a worldview that has more to do with their psyche than the intentions of the artist/whoever. To say that none of that stuff can be joked about because of it’s association with real suffering is a bit much. You can joke about the ICP while taking teen gang involvement seriously because the ICP is a music act (term used loosely), not a couple of gang leaders. They’re idiots, but they’re not on the streets toting guns and calling for gang wars. Watch Big Money Hustlas (if you can stand it) and tell me that these people intend to be taken seriously.

  32. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 8, 2010 at 12:06 pm —

    Hah!

    What, may I ask, did you expect?
    The Insane, as they say in England, is right on the tin.

  33. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 8, 2010 at 12:08 pm —

    Insane Clown Posse, I’d like you to meet Greydon Square.
    He’s about to tear your shit up, don’t be scared.

  34. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 12:10 pm —

    @sexysecularist: The new Jay-Z is about 2/3 awesome too. He’s one of my favorites because he has some really novel flows, he’s big into blasphemy both religious and cutural (often taking a stand against lame hip-hop trends), and he seems like a really stand-up dude in most respects (including seeming to have a really healthy relationship with Beyonce, something rare in the world of celebrity). Plus he picks some damn fine producers.

    @mrmisconception: I think the only way to enjoy Greydon Square is if you don’t really like hip-hop and really enjoy having your views constantly reaffirmed.

  35. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:11 pm —

    @jtradke: Sometimes I love Eminem, sometimes I hate him, but the man can rap. His style is “multisyllabic rhyming” which is really difficult to pull off, and he does it seemingly naturally. Not to mention the stories he creates, over multiple albums, and his sense of humor. He misses sometimes, but he is a talented mo’ fo’ — probably one of THE most talented rappers ever.

  36. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:13 pm —

    @James Fox: Yeah…I don’t think ICP is the only one to blame with this. Kids were doing that *before* ICP came along. Quite honestly, these kids were probably doomed from the get-go, and if it wasn’t ICP, it would have been something else — another gang, another rationalization for why violence is okay. Their parents are far more to blame than some horrible band.

  37. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 8, 2010 at 12:14 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: I definitely think ICP expects to be taken seriously and they do nothing that I’m aware of to discourage the violence and misogyny associated with their followers. And while ”fucking awesome” may not have been intended as a ringing endorsement, it doesn’t come across as all that disparaging either.

  38. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 12:15 pm —

    @marilove: yeah, it took me a long time to appreciate what that guy can do. His tone and message is often really off-putting and he really needs to let other people produce his stuff because his beats are usually pretty amateurish, but the dude has talent. I usually enjoy his appearances in other people’s songs (Jay-Z’s Renegade minus the shitty chorus, some Dre tracks) better than his own stuff.

  39. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 8, 2010 at 12:16 pm —

    My point, actually, was that he is a scientist.
    I could have said that Brian May was going after ICP but that just seemed silly.
    As far as hip-hop goes I’d say I can listen to it but it is not really my bag, so no I’m not a connoisseur.

  40. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:17 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: I love Jay Z’s flow. I hear he doesn’t write anything down — it just comes to him. He’s not as technically talented as Eminem, but he’s one of the better rappers out there today.

    Don’t get me started on 50 Cent. Ugh. That man can’t wrap.

    Kanye isn’t much of a rapper, either, but his first album was pretty great. Now he just stinks.

    I really like Common. Oh, man. His flow is sooo smoooooth. Sigh. Wait, I got distracted by thoughts of Common…

    Also been really into Kid Cudi recently. I like how personal his songs are, and he’s got a nice, even, conversational flow that I like.

  41. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 8, 2010 at 12:18 pm —

    @marilove: Well hell, the fire would have burned anyway so who cares who lit the match. Not buying that logic today sorry. And as with the fuck head bigot teens in Mississippi those who engage in gang activity are personally responsible for their actions regardless of how much blame might reasonably be attributed to the parents.

  42. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:19 pm —

    @James Fox: So do video games cause violent behavior, then? What about Stephen King novels?

    ICP is an outlet for these kids, no doubt about it — but if it wasn’t ICP, it’d be something else. ICP didn’t *cause* them to be the way they are. The issue is far, far too complex to lay the blame solely on a band. What about the parents who raised them, for instance?

  43. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 12:19 pm —

    The anger in this comment section makes me sad. The lack of moderation of this by the staff members of skepchick makes me angry.
    I have been a skeptic much longer than I have been a juggalo, and I would like to say the following:
    1) You don’t know enough about Juggalo culture to be making comments about it, the video is ironic satire, Jay and Shaggy are not stupid people, however (based on the lyrics to “Thy Unveiling”) they ARE at the very least deists, a mindset I don’t find particularly abhorrent.

    To you specific assholes:
    @James Fox: These guys are not inciting gang violence and you’re misleading to suggest otherwise. They say very often and very clearly that the point of the anger and violence in their music is so the people who listen to it can vent their frustrations through it, instead of through violence. If you want to talk about rappers inciting gang violence, look at the red vs. blue rhetoric you still hear on the radio from modern “gangsta” (c)rap.

    @jthewonderllamma: You should be ashamed of yourself. “While I’m aware that every single ICP fan is an amazingly stupid and pathetic human being, they are still capable of violence. Quite frankly, they frighten me.” Quite the insulting and sweeping generality there. I’m a Juggalo, a self professed ICP fan, someone who appreciates the intent of the music and finds solace in songs like “Homies” and “We Belong”, which espouse values I can agree with, of brotherhood and community, and I assure you, I am not stupid, nor am I pathetic, and while I’m quite capable of violence, I’m very rarely inclined to it, and less so when I have something else to vent that violence through, like listening to loud, angry rap music.

    In short, I think this will be the last skepchick post I bother to read, because I am truly insulted by the lack of respect shown that not a single staff member has asked that the rhetoric be not quite so hatefilled in the comments. Could you imagine how defensive people would be if someone had said something like “I’m aware all Christians are evil, child-molesting pedophiles capable of horrible and despicable things” (Something that is also patently untrue)?

  44. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:19 pm —

    @James Fox: I SERIOUSLY doubt ICP lit the match, dude. People don’t turn to violents because of a few songs. The issue is MUCH MUCH MUCH more complicated than “they listened to ICP and now they are horrible people!”

  45. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 12:22 pm —

    @marilove: keep tossing out recommendations! That goes for everybody. I love good hip hop (it’s antidepressent music for me), but am pretty bad at finding it. One of the single most impressive flows I’ve seen recently was when rewatching Chappelle’s Show. Look up Big Boi’s performance of The Rooster from that show and prepare to be blown away. I would link to it, but I’m at work.

  46. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 12:29 pm —

    @cjdeak: You are an outlier. Much like insinuating that all deadheads are or were stoners, sure it’s not one hundred percent true, but neither is it an unfair generalization. Most ICP fans are fucking morons. Most ICP songs are terrible even if you aren’t judging the content. Writing off all the dumb stuff they say as “satire” (as rush limbaugh also likes to do) is giving them far too much credit.

    I do agree with you about them not inciting violence, though, and they have been very vocal about their stance on that, contrary to what James says.

  47. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:29 pm —

    Not to say that ICP isn’t a horrible band that promotes a lot of horrible shit. I get that.

    But I don’t get not being able to make fun of them and their horrible, horrible song, especially here, where I’m sure there isn’t a fan to be found.

  48. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:30 pm —

    “where I’m sure there isn’t a fan to be found.”

    UH I THINK I SPOKE TOO SOON. OMGBBQ.

  49. Profile photo of k-rex
    April 8, 2010 at 12:30 pm —

    Nice work. How do you find this amazingly awesome and deliciously bizarre stuff?

    But I’m wondering if they still need their history of the pyramids in Egypt straightened out, also. The clowns group them in with natural miracles, which is inaccurate, because how they were created is something that I assume is common knowledge that science revealed a long time ago.

  50. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 8, 2010 at 12:31 pm —

    People who stir the pot need to take responsibility for the stew and some vague disclaimer with regard to ones intentions is trite, pathetic and disingenuous at best.

    @marilove: Every aspect of human behavior is complicated including the fear and insecurity that often underpins some racist views; that is not a valid excuse however.

  51. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 12:32 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: Yes it is an unfair generalization. Like if I were to make the unfair generalization that all skepchick commenters are all insensitive troglodytes who are as close minded as the fundamentalists they make fun of. I also don’t see the comparison between a musical group that
    has ALWAYS BEEN satire, to a guy on the radio who intends everything he says to be taken seriously, and only later corrects himself that “it was only satire” when someone calls him out on it,

    edit: and there’s a difference between implying that fans of a musical group all enjoy marijuana and implying that we’re all stupid and pathetic. One is just a generalization. The other is a generalization and an insult. (Of course, I will concede that some people might be insulted by being called a stoner if they weren’t, it’s not a term that was used directly as an insult.)
    Aren’t skeptics supposed to be against ad hominem attacks like that?

  52. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:33 pm —

    @cjdeak: LOL. Really?! ICP is a horrible, horrible band, full of shitty, illogical lyrics (DID YOU WATCH THE VIDEO?), not to mention their blatant misogyny. I could go on. AND THEIR MUSIC SUCKS and they can’t rap for fucking shit.

    If you want to like them … fine, but I can think you’re an idiot with poor taste in music. I have that right.

    How can you call your self a Skeptic, and be a regular on Skepchick, and yet listen to a band so full of misogyny and ridiculousness?

    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/icpinsaneclownposse/istuckherwithmywang.html

    Oh, yeah. They are such great artists. *eye roll*

  53. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:35 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: Me thinks someone got all butthurt because we DARED to make fun of a stupid band that they are clearly obsessed with.

    Aren’t “Juggalos” supposed to have thicker skin than that?

    Hilarious.

    And good riddance, honestly.

  54. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:36 pm —

    @cjdeak: I thought you were not going to comment or read anymore?

  55. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 12:36 pm —

    @marilove: I suppose the same way you can call yourself “open minded” (I assume you do, it’s a title that regularly goes with skepticism) and still resort to ad hominem attacks about my intelligence because I choose that medium to vent my frustration. What’s to stop you from watching so-bad-they’re-good B-movies, and me call you an idiot for it?

  56. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:37 pm —

    @James Fox: I think they’ve made it pretty clear that they are satire, and I don’t think they are all that serious with their schtick. That doesn’t mean people won’t take them seriously. But people took Marylyn Manson seriously.

  57. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 12:37 pm —

    @marilove:
    I’m getting updates to these comments via email, and I’m enjoying the discourse, especially since a few people are willing to concede a few logical points. I didn’t say I was going to stop commenting NOW, but I have taken skepchick out of my RSS feed until I see someone from skepchick come out and say “Hey wait a minute guys, we don’t need to resort to name calling”

  58. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 8, 2010 at 12:38 pm —

    Juggalos?
    Really? That’s what they call themselves?
    I thought Parrothead and Deadhead were stupid things to call yourself, but Juggalos.

    Sounds like a breakfast cereal for circus performers.

  59. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 12:39 pm —

    @marilove:
    You really do make skeptics look bad, you know. I know I’m not an idiot, and that I’m not pathetic, but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t stop and say hey guys stop being assholes just because you don’t like the same music as other people.

  60. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:39 pm —

    @cjdeak: WE ARE MAKING FUN OF A BAND! A band! And you’re comparing that to, what, calling all Christians pedophiles? Really? You’re going to stop coming to a site because we’re making fun of a band that you happen to like?

    It’s a band. A horrible, shitty band, at that. And you’re *this* upset? Woooooooooow.

    Are all Juggalos this fucking sensitive?

    Maybe James Fox has a point… You seem to be close to losing it over a band.

  61. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 12:40 pm —

    @mrmisconception:

    It came from a song off of one of their earlier albums, where one of the members of the group takes on the persona the “Juggla” in their “Dark Carnival” circus act they play out. The fans expanded on it as a term of endearment because to that point there had been no “Parrothead” or “Deadhead” esque term for us.

  62. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 12:42 pm —

    @marilove:
    I don’t have a problem with you making fun of the band. I do have a problem with being called “stupid”, “an idiot”, “pathetic” and other sorts of names just because I like that band. And I don’t really see how I’m upset, I’m just defending my point of view, and by myself against a rather large and vehement opposition I might add.

  63. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:42 pm —

    @cjdeak: I don’t understand why you’re this upset over a band with shitty lyrics, horrible beats, and two men who can’t rap for shit.

  64. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 8, 2010 at 12:43 pm —

    I’m not a juggalo. This mantra helps me sleep at night. I’m at best an aging punk, and goodness knows there’s plenty in my musical library that would cause people to shudder. I even wrote a song about toxoplasmosis set to a ska version of (pardon the spelling) hava nagiela. http://www.regurgitones.com/lyrics/toxoplasmosis.shtml

    So I know I have no room to complain about ridiculous musical failures, and yet I’m going to anyway. Everything I’ve heard from ICP has been garbage. But this song totally takes the cake. This song is one big trip down ignorance lane, and I nearly peed listening to it.

    The good news is it’s also a terrible song musically, and doesn’t have any of the vibe that ICP fans generally seek out in that style of music. It’s too slow, not EVIL, lyrically bad, and not sonically interesting.

    If you want good rap and hip hop music, I’d suggest Sage Francis, Dream Warriors, Digable Planets, Knaan (who’s clinging to Islam is annoying but writes good music), and Del The Funkee Homosapien. Better yet, listen to some nerdcore rap acts like MC Frontalot, Optimus Rhyme, or YT Cracker. Or mash the two together and listen to Deltron 3030. But skip the ICP altogether.

  65. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 12:43 pm —

    @marilove:
    see:
    @cjdeak:

  66. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:43 pm —

    @cjdeak: I think you’ll survive.

  67. Profile photo of jthewonderllama
    April 8, 2010 at 12:44 pm —

    @cjdeak
    As a skeptic, I try to form my opinions on solid evidence. When I say “every single ICP fan is an amazingly stupid and pathetic human being” , I do so based upon strong empirical data. Furthermore, I assure you that I will revise my opinion if new evidence presents itself.

  68. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 8, 2010 at 12:45 pm —

    So there was a juggler involved. I thought it was some kind of weird amalgum of the J and part of Shaggy and, well, anyway that does make more sense.

    But it still sounds like part of a full and nutritious breakfast to me. : )

  69. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 12:45 pm —

    Skepchick moderators: Read the responses to the quite rational comments I have posted, and you’ll see my point, that some of the commenters on this site are just as hate-filled as the people who attack us (the skeptic community) for not believing exactly as they believe.

    And thank you, @jthewonderllama: , that’ll be the last comment I read, because I don’t see any more logical ground being conceded by your side, and I’m certainly not going to concede that I’m “amazingly stupid and pathetic” no matter how much you wish it so.

  70. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:46 pm —
  71. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 12:48 pm —

    @cjdeak: You do realize the writer of this post is Rebecca, the creator of this site, right?

    And oh dear, you guys. We made fun of him because of a band he likes. We are evil.

    “just as hate-filled as the people who attack us (the skeptic community) for not believing exactly as they believe.”

    Yeah. Making fun of a band is SO the same thing!

  72. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 8, 2010 at 12:53 pm —

    I’m a serial killer. Frankly, I find all of the skeptics I’ve ever told this to are no better than Christians. They judge me without even knowing what serial killing is like. If more people explored the delicious happiness that comes from humiliating and slaughtering a family the world would be more at peace, and population growth would lessen. Open your minds!

  73. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 8, 2010 at 12:54 pm —

    (and yes, I just compared being an ICP fan to being a serial killer, which is a bit of a stretch)

  74. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 8, 2010 at 12:55 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: Check out Busdriver. Especially the album Temporary Forever. A-MAZING.

  75. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 8, 2010 at 12:59 pm —

    Well, haven’t we all been there?

    Got our skivvis in a twist about one thing or another. But really, leaving because Mommy won’t may Timmy stop looking at me that way? And over something as subjective as music?

    I have alway maintained that there are certain things that skepticism will never be able to apply to because they can not be imperically measured; political affiliation, sports alegiances, and art of all kinds. These thing are OPINION and to say that one overall viewpoint or another is WRONG is overreaching at best. To say that the followers of any sports team, politital party, or band (or tv show, book series, etc.) is stupid, misinformed and has bad taste is ALSO OPINION and should be viewed as such.

    You can do what you want, but I think you should stay. We can always use another set of eyes, even if they do like crappy music. ;)
    jk- I’ve never heard their stuff but they do LOOK rediculous.

  76. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 1:00 pm —

    @biguglyjim: A hilarious stretch.

  77. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 8, 2010 at 1:05 pm —

    Nearly all rappers who sing angry violent rapey stuff disown all the actions of individuals who commit crimes claiming the influence of said music performer or band; to do otherwise would be law suit suicide. I personally blame KISS for mullets and I’m happy to dole out some culpability on people who sing violent killing rapey songs for the acts of a few of their followers. Some people really are stupid and are clearly more apt to engage in bad behavior when encouraged or given tacit permission by someone they admire or by their peers.

  78. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 1:07 pm —

    @mrmisconception:
    A friend of mine who was reading over this comment section told me I should pull the page back up and read what you wrote, and I appreciate your sentiment, but don’t you agree it’s wrong to personally insult the individual based on their musical choices you may happen to disagree with? And I concede your point about “Mommy won’t make Timmy stop looking at me that way” but as someone who has written online blogs, I tried to interject myself as a moderator when civil discourse became uncivilized arguing. Thank you, however, for your quite rational understanding of the word “opinion”. I believe everyone is quite entitled to have one, and I assure you this is not the first time I’ve encountered people who dislike Insane Clown Posse, and even dislike me for liking it. A good friend of mine consistently tells me that “being a juggalo is the worst thing you can be” and I don’t think that he’s wrong, he’s certainly entitled to his opinion, but he’s never called me an idiot, stupid, pathetic, or any of the other names I’ve been called here today. That crosses the line from “having an opinion about the music” to “having an opinion about the fan”, and while you’re certainly entitled to call me whatever names you want, am I not just entitled to be of the opinion that it’s the job of the people who organize and run this site, to keep the comment section clear of nonsense and personal insults from one particular commenter to another?

  79. Profile photo of jtradke
    April 8, 2010 at 1:09 pm —

    Yes, Rebecca, please have your “staff” moderate the freely-expressed opinions of commenters, which happen to be in more or less total agreement with your own.

  80. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 1:10 pm —

    @James Fox: So… Stephen King… He must incite violence. He must be a violent man. Or maybe he just likes to write fiction?

    But the mullets. You got me there. KISS and Billy Ray Cyrus deserve to be shot.

  81. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 1:11 pm —

    @jtradke:
    I didn’t see anything in the original post calling the FANS of the band any names, and I highly doubt Rebecca Watson is of the opinion that “all ICP fans are idiots and pathetic human beings”, she was merely using her position and quite frankly her right as an online presence to state her opinion about the music itself, the artist, and the song in particular.

  82. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 1:11 pm —

    @cjdeak: I’m sorry, but if you seriously call yourself a Juggalo, without irony … yeah.

    Seriously? JFC.

    My opinion of anyone who calls themself a Juggalo, seriously, goes down in spades. ICP is a fucking shit band and I can’t take anyone who likes them seriously. And for good reason.

  83. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 8, 2010 at 1:12 pm —

    Juggalo soldier, dreadlock gangsta
    There was a juggalo soldier in the heart of America
    Stolen from New Jersey, brought to Albequerque
    Fighting on arrival, fighting for survival

    Man, I love Marley 2-Dope…

  84. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 1:12 pm —

    @biguglyjim:
    Honestly, THIS should be COTW.

    This made me laugh out loud. And by the by, I love Bob Marley.

  85. Profile photo of jtradke
    April 8, 2010 at 1:18 pm —

    @cjdeak: I highly doubt *anyone* literally holds that opinion, categorically, even the person who first posted it. That you continue to take umbrage at whatever Joe Internet thinks of you is probably why the mockery persists.

  86. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 8, 2010 at 1:18 pm —

    @marilove: I’m calling apples and oranges on that one. I may be wrong but it seems to me having a character behave in a certain way in a narrative (even in a song) is somewhat different than actual first person advocating of bad behavior. And no one ever said Tom Jones was saying men should kill their cheating girlfriends when he sang Delilah!

    @biguglyjim: :-))

  87. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 1:22 pm —

    @jtradke: This.

    @James Fox: OH, really?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rage_(novel)

    The novel’s plot vaguely resembles actual events that have transpired since the book’s publication, to a degree that the author is no longer comfortable with the book being in print for fear that it may inspire similar occurrences (“[Rage is] now out of print, and a good thing.”),[1] as it had already been associated with incidents of high school shootings and hostage takings:

    Is that why he’s been blamed in the past, then? Do you think he should have been blamed? I mean, someone may have gotten the idea directly from his novel! Surely Stephen King is partially to blame, right?

    I personally don’t think so. In my opinion, anyone who does any of the above already has a fucking screw lose and would have found some other way to justify their behavior. If it wasn’t a Stephen King novel, it would have been an Eminem song. Or a movie. Or just someone saying something wrong.

    What about Eminem? He’s not *that* different from ICP in some of his imagery, and many of his songs are about him or his alter ego, and there have been reports of people using his songs as justification for certain violent acts.

    What about Marilyn Manson, who got blamed for the Columbine Shooting?

    I don’t get the “character/first person” distinction. Seems pretty subjective, to me.

  88. Profile photo of porlob
    April 8, 2010 at 1:30 pm —

    I don’t think I can get on board with condemning ICP (I can’t believe I just typed those words) becuase some of their fans commit acts of violence. Remember when the Columbine shootings were blamed on Marilyn Manson, KMFDM, and Nine Inch Nails’ “violent” lyrics? And remember how it was all bullshit?

    There may (or may not, as far as I know) be some correlation between liking ICP and being cretinous thug. But it sure seems like the correlation could go the other way.

    @James Fox:

    Nearly all rappers who sing angry violent rapey stuff disown all the actions of individuals who commit crimes claiming the influence of said music performer or band; to do otherwise would be law suit suicide.

    Are there a lot of cases of criminals self-attributing their actions to rap lyrics? Maybe there are, but I’m not aware of any.

    Don’t get me wrong, there is a lot of vile stuff in some music. Rampant misogyny and homophobia. Rape. Violence… And it would be silly to claim that a constant barrage of such messages didn’t have some influence on the psychology of some of their listenerers, but I’m a bit leery of blaming violent acts on the part of some people on the actions of others… except maybe for Glenn Beck. ;)

  89. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 8, 2010 at 1:30 pm —

    @marilove: I definitely admit it’s my opinion and a soft fuzzy one it just might be. It seems to me that singing “cap the pig” to your fans is morally and ethically different than writing, “young Bobby vented his anger through the barrel of his dead fathers Colt 45 straight into the unsuspecting officers torso”, in the pages of a book.

  90. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 8, 2010 at 1:32 pm —

    I’m of two minds on this issue. As a musician, if I wrote a song with violent lyrics (and I have) and someone went out and acted on them, I’d feel awful. But I don’t think it’d be my fault. People are personally responsible for their actions, and as much as they can be inspired by the work of others to act (both positively and negatively — how many people became scientists after watching Cosmos?) that hardly puts the responsibility on the author of the work.

    That said, there is such a thing as playing with fire.

  91. Profile photo of jthewonderllama
    April 8, 2010 at 1:32 pm —

    @cjdeak
    “I don’t think that he’s wrong, he’s certainly entitled to his opinion, but he’s never called me an idiot, stupid, pathetic, or any of the other names I’ve been called here today.”

    Because I don’t want you to think that I’m insulting you personally, I’ll revise the offending post:

    “Fucking awesome, Rebecca. However, I hope your post doesn’t spark a culture war between juggalos and skeptics. While I’m aware that every single ICP fan (with the exception of cjdeak) is an amazingly stupid and pathetic human being, they are still capable of violence. Quite frankly, they frighten me.”

    Incidentally, could you solve this (x2 + 5x + 6 = 0) for x, and provide a list of personal references.

    Thanks a bunch!

  92. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 8, 2010 at 1:33 pm —

    @greenishblu: To reduce my opinion for the sake of argument how about I say group think can lead to individual actions. We say that is the case regarding homophobic assaults and racist violence, why not when it comes to rape and other assaults championed in rapper culture?

  93. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 1:35 pm —

    @James Fox: I just don’t see how it’s *that* different. BUT, I do get why ICP makes you so uncomfortable. Believe me, they make me uncomfortable too. I just don’t think they are the *cause* or the *reason* that kids (and adults) turn to violence. They are used as a way to justify the violence, or as an excuse, but I think that if someone is already that fucked in the head to shoot someone, they were likely already fucked in the head.

    HOWEVER, I will concede that they can help stir the pot, but I don’t think they created the soup.

  94. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 1:37 pm —

    @greenishblu:

    Don’t get me wrong, there is a lot of vile stuff in some music. Rampant misogyny and homophobia. Rape. Violence… And it would be silly to claim that a constant barrage of such messages didn’t have some influence on the psychology of some of their listenerers, but I’m a bit leery of blaming violent acts on the part of some people on the actions of others… except maybe for Glenn Beck.

    Thank you. You said it far better than I could have. :)

  95. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 1:38 pm —

    @James Fox: Because a song isn’t groupthink. It’s a song. Or a book. Or a video game.

    If ICP creates violence, then I guess NIN does. And Marilyn Manson.

    Do you promote censorship of this music? I totally get your disdain and I don’t blame you, but what is your suggestion?

    Surely making fun of them is a good way to point out how ridiculous they are.

    And hey, making fun of them brought us to this interesting discussion. Humor is a GOOD thing!

  96. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 8, 2010 at 1:43 pm —

    While I can understand why you are feeling personally offended by what has been said here, I would point out that no one (I don’t think) specifically called YOU out for an insult but rather “all ICP fans.” I fully understand how that can seem personal I would liken it, rather, to a Yankee’s fan saying that all BoSox fans are fucktards, or saying the Twilight books as crap (an opinion I happen to share) and those who read (or watch) them are therefore also crap (meh).
    There are times when opinion does get out of hand, true (ask any soccor huligan what he thinks of the fans of the other team), but I would say this falls far short of that mark.
    If you have been here for very long you may realize that moderation usually only happens when things become completely uncivil or overly repetative. Being on the receiving end of all the emnity might make this feel that way to you, but from the outside it is far from there, and again I hope you reconsider.

  97. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 8, 2010 at 1:49 pm —

    @marilove: Censorship is bad, responsibility is good! In a free society we tolerate a lot of crap and we should. Being tolerated is different then being given a free pass and tolerated crap still smells like shit. And if you’re providing propaganda for a point of view, even if you disown the potential ramifications of what you communicate, then you are clearly advocating some group think IMO, especially when there is an identified subculture of followers such as exists with ICP.

  98. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 1:51 pm —

    @mrmisconception: Indeed. Especially since most of this was in good fun. I mean, really, it’s a band. A horrible band. That we were making fun of.

    Do you know how often I used to get made fun of for liking the Dave Matthews Band? I used to be obsessed, back in my high school days.

    I never took it personally. If I had, I would have been angry a loooot. Instead, I turned it around and made fun of myself and them, making it into kind of a joke.

    If one is so proud of being a Juggalo, why all the defensiveness, anyway? Seems a bit of an overreaction over some joking around about a band.

  99. Profile photo of daniac74
    April 8, 2010 at 1:52 pm —

    This has gotten off-topic. I could think of many, many reasons to dislike ICP on a personal level: the shitty music, the stupid make-up, making their own children wear the same stupid make-up, I can rap better than them (and I cannot rap), blah, blah, blah. What really matters here are the lyrics to this stupid fucking song. It is the antithesis of skepticism. […look all around you, the universe is amazing, but don’t try to explain it to me or you’ll piss me off, motherfucker]. These guys have lots of fans, and while all of them may not already be stupid, they’re certainly not going to be any smarter after hearing this shit.

  100. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 1:52 pm —

    @James Fox: I getya. I just think those followers would have found another outlet if ICP didn’t exist.

  101. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 1:57 pm —

    I think we’re being a bit hard on the resident juggalo. I would say that it’s fair to say that most juggalos are morons (based on experience), but it’s not alright to jump to the conclusion that an individual is a moron because of a band they like. The most you can infer is that they have shitty taste. I can accept an intelligent juggalo because I’ve known plenty of otherwise intelligent people with inexplicably horrible taste, and I can see why this dude got pissed (though I think his reaction was a bit over the top). There are things that he has brought up that can be dismissed, though.

    For instance: the satire argument. While I can believe that these guys don’t take themselves seriously, what are they satirizing? The only way this explanation works is if their entire career, aesthetic, and message is a satire of…. something that didn’t exist until they made it up. Are you insinuating that they are essentially making fun of people who take them seriously and act like they do (in other words, their fans)?

  102. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 8, 2010 at 2:12 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: “Are you insinuating that they are essentially making fun of people who take them seriously and act like they do (in other words, their fans)?”

    That would make them the nastiest most cynical band ever.

  103. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 8, 2010 at 2:24 pm —

    Also, there didn’t appear to be any satire in the song. They seemed quite genuine in their embracing of ignorance.

  104. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 2:28 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: “Are you insinuating that they are essentially making fun of people who take them seriously and act like they do (in other words, their fans)?”

    Honestly? I think that’s part of it. Maybe not the whole picture, but part of it. They are making money, after all.

    @James Fox: Their lyrics would support that notion.

    @biguglyjim: I’m thinking it’s a mix of ridiculousness and seriousness. Just like Glenn Beck!

  105. Profile photo of
    April 8, 2010 at 2:32 pm —

    @mrmisconception:
    “I would point out that no one (I don’t think) specifically called YOU out for an insult but rather “all ICP fans.” ”

    Yeah, someone did.
    @jthewonderllama:

    followed by
    @jthewonderllama:

    If that wasn’t specifically redirecting that comment at CJ, I don’t know what it was.

    And I really didn’t see the guy getting all that pissed off, he certainly didn’t call anyone any names. MMFCL (Much Motherfucking Clown Love, to those who don’t know) going atcha Seej, Love you Brother.

    And by the way, @jthewonderllama:

    I’d be glad to be his personal reference, having never even met him, but just knowing we’re brothers in the Carnival, I bet you I could call him at five in the morning (if I knew his phone number) and be like “Yo mang, can I rant for a bit, I’m having a tough day”, because that’s what ICP and the Juggalo ideas are all about.

    Now I’m gonna say something CJ was too polite to:

    Get over yourselves, douchebags.

  106. Profile photo of chrisb
    April 8, 2010 at 2:44 pm —

    This post is postively Jago-esque!

  107. Profile photo of Sunioc
    April 8, 2010 at 2:51 pm —

    @James Fox:

    I may be wrong but it seems to me having a character behave in a certain way in a narrative (even in a song) is somewhat different than actual first person advocating of bad behavior.

    As much as I’ll hate myself for defending ICP, you do realize that Shaggy and Violent J aren’t actually their real names, and that they’re not -actually- evil clowns in a dark carnival, right? They are as much characters as those in a stephen king novel, or for a more relevant reference, Eminem’s character in Kim and ’97 Bonny and Clyde, in which he talks about beating his wife to death, and then taking his kid with him to the beach to ditch the body. Eminem never did these things, just as I’m sure Violent J never killed a cop and Marilyn Manson never engaged in sodomy while eating cake (okay, that last one probably happened.) You can’t blame ICP for the violence committed by their fans, unless you also want to blame Marilyn Manson, Eminem, and every other artist, musical or otherwise, who ever mentioned violent acts in their work.

  108. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 8, 2010 at 2:57 pm —

    I blame Jesus and his posse for all the crimes perpetuated in his name…

  109. Profile photo of Bjornar
    April 8, 2010 at 2:57 pm —

    @cjdeak: I think your call for moderation is overly sensitive, and your defense for this particular song absurd, but mostly I’m surprised that you’re this shocked that skeptisism is full of opinionated assholes who think there are objective criteria for deciding what’s good and bad in creative media.

    Me, I just ignore them and hope their hopefully rational evaluation of things that can be evaluated rationally makes up for them being bigoted dickwads in areas pertaining to taste.

  110. Profile photo of
    April 8, 2010 at 3:00 pm —

    I would like to know why other comments posted AFTER mine have been approved , but mine is still awaiting moderation. Ironic that I’m also defending Seej

  111. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:02 pm —

    I was just told by my friend Jay, with whom I shared this article, that he posted a comment just before @marilove: but it is still “awaiting moderation”

    So what’s that about?
    @Bjornar:
    My call for moderation is only that someone should step in and say “Hey guys, my website’s not a place to make fun of people for what kind of music they like”

  112. Profile photo of Zapski
    April 8, 2010 at 3:05 pm —

    Shit, I’m out of popcorn. brb.

  113. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:09 pm —

    NOT CJ:

    CJ let me use his account since comments I post keep getting relegated to “awaiting moderation” indefinitely.

    Originally posted under the name MMFCLFriend:

    @mrmisconception:
    “I would point out that no one (I don’t think) specifically called YOU out for an insult but rather “all ICP fans.” ”

    Yeah, someone did.
    @jthewonderllama:

    followed by
    @jthewonderllama:

    If that wasn’t specifically redirecting that comment at CJ, I don’t know what it was.

    And I really didn’t see the guy getting all that pissed off, he certainly didn’t call anyone any names. MMFCL (Much Motherfucking Clown Love, to those who don’t know) going atcha Seej, Love you Brother.

    And by the way, @jthewonderllama:

    I’d be glad to be his personal reference, having never even met him, but just knowing we’re brothers in the Carnival, I bet you I could call him at five in the morning (if I knew his phone number) and be like “Yo mang, can I rant for a bit, I’m having a tough day”, because that’s what ICP and the Juggalo ideas are all about.

    Now I’m gonna say something CJ was too polite to:

    Get over yourselves, douchebags.

  114. Profile photo of Expatria
    April 8, 2010 at 3:11 pm —

    @cjdeak:

    Certain words can automatically trigger moderation, which is what probably happened here. I doubt that anyone is being singled out. Odds are that your friend used a word or name that tripped a filter.

  115. Profile photo of Sunioc
    April 8, 2010 at 3:11 pm —

    @cjdeak:

    I was just told by my friend Jay, with whom I shared this article, that he posted a comment just before @marilove: but it is still “awaiting moderation”

    There’s a 5 minute delay on any posts, but they’re automatically submitted after that. If your friend sees “Your comment is awaiting moderation”, he probably accidentally hit delete, which would give you that message.

  116. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:13 pm —

    @Expatria: Yes, this makes sense, after reading what I let him post with my account, it was probably calling out the “dbags” that tripped the system. And he submitted his post 15+ minutes ago, so I doubt it’s just the timing holding it back. I doubt there’s actively a skepchick moderator sitting and stopping posts supporting my opinion, I actually figured his language was the reason it was moderated, I just thought it was interesting that the concept of moderation applies to curse words but not to insults.

  117. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 3:19 pm —

    @cjdeak: If it’s full of links, it could also trigger moderation. It’s happened to me in the past.

    “Get over yourselves, douchebags.”

    Wow, lol. I think you need to get over yourself. It’s a band for FSM’s sake! A BAND! Two grown men who dress in clown outfits and spew ridiculous, horrible lyerics to horrible beats that a child could create. You are really that upset over some strangers making fun of a band you happen to like?

    I dun get it.

    It is just a band. We didn’t make fun of your mother.

  118. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 3:21 pm —

    @cjdeak: I doubt it has anything to do with curse words. It may also be because he hasn’t posted before. Or some other random word(s) in the comment that triggered a spam-check. If comments were moderated for curse words, every comment of mine would be moderated.

  119. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm —

    @Bjornar: “bigoted dickwads” for making fun of a band?

    Man, some people take their shitty tastes far too seriously.

  120. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm —

    @marilove:
    I think the point he was making is that you all seem to think a little highly of your own musical tastes when you declare that anyone who likes a particular band is an idiot, or “pathetic”, instead of just saying that the band makes bad music that you don’t like.

  121. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:22 pm —

    @marilove: Again, not for making fun of the band, for making fun of the fans.

  122. Profile photo of Elyse
    April 8, 2010 at 3:23 pm —

    @cjdeak:

    FYI: Your first comment after registration is held in moderation. This is to stop people from registering just to tell us that “UR BLOG SUX SO BAD HOW DAIR U SAY THAT TWILITE IS BAD I LUV BELLA N HOAPE THAT SHE N EDWARD HALVE A NICE BRAKEUP SO I CN DATE HIM LOLZ JK I WANT THEM TO BE HAPY1″

    or

    “ICP is cool! JUGGGGGGGGGALOOOOOOOS!”

  123. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 3:25 pm —

    @cjdeak: I even mentioned my OWN questionable music tastes, and the fact that I’ve made fun of myself for them. Hello, my 18 year old self was seriously (SERIOUSLY) obsessed with DMB. If that’s not mock-worthy, I dunno what is.

    You’re taking us making fun of a fucking horrible band as some kind of personal insult, like we REALLY give a fuck what kind of music you like. Therefore: Get over yourself. You’re not that special.

  124. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:26 pm —

    @Elyse:
    Yeah, I wasn’t sure what the case was but I figured it was because he just registered to make that comment, or because “douchebag” might have been on a list of ‘unacceptable curse words’.

    I don’t comment regularly enough to know the rules for moderation, so I wasn’t sure.

  125. Profile photo of Expatria
    April 8, 2010 at 3:27 pm —

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:

    It’s inspiring that the Juggalos were able to come back after being hunted nearly to extinction on the old frontier.

    That said, at least the Native Americans used EVERY PART of the Juggalo.

    :-P

  126. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:28 pm —

    @marilove:
    Again, you’re not making fun of the band, you’re making fun of the FANS. By the way, I particularly like Dave Matthews, it’s good stuff. If people made fun of you for liking them, that’s silly, but do you seriously not understand the difference between saying “ICP is stupid/bad music/evil people/babykillers/Hitler/whatever” and saying “ICP FANS are ALL… etc.”

  127. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 3:31 pm —

    @cjdeak: Hey, ICP lyrics are full of homophobia, misogyny, and violence … yet you say it’s just satire, and “not serious” and we should relaaaaaaax.

    Yet somehow…us having a guffaw over insane ICP fans (like you) is somehow Serious Biz.

    “ICP is stupid/bad music/evil people/babykillers/Hitler/whatever” and saying “ICP FANS are ALL… etc.””

    Oh. But it’s ok if ICP says *actual* vile shit about women and gays. I see.

    Nice rationalization there.

    *shrug* I just detect a lot of butthurt and defensiveness because we DARED to make fun of a band you are clearly obsessed over.

  128. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:32 pm —

    @Expatria:
    Please keep posting things like this. Between this and the juggalo soldiers lyrics, I’ve gotten a few laughs out of this. :D

  129. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:35 pm —

    @marilove: I’m done being nice to you, you’re an idiot. For the last time, I’m not upset because you made fun of the band. I’ll make fun of them too, they look silly in the makeup. I’m actually not all that obsessed with them, but their music has helped me through some tough times. My point is that you turned your dislike of Insane Clown Posse into an insult pointed at every single person who enjoys their music. Call the band any kind of names you want, I don’t care. You notice I haven’t said the first word of protest about the actual content of the blog post? I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I bet Shaggy and J would have too. There is a clear and distinct difference between making fun of the BAND and making fun of the FANS.

  130. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 3:38 pm —

    @cjdeak: “I’m done being nice to you, you’re an idiot. ”

    What’s that I smell? Hypocrisy. It’s a bit tangy.

    You call yourself a Juggalo, dude. Get some thicker skin.

    They are a disgustingly misogynist, homophobic “band” and you are proud to associate yourself with them? Really?

    That’d be like me saying I love me some Glenn Beck.

  131. Profile photo of jthewonderllama
    April 8, 2010 at 3:39 pm —

    @cjdeak
    When I claimed that all ICP fans are amazingly stupid and pathetic human beings, I assumed the statement would be taken as an obvious joke. Everyone knows that it is Jimmy Buffett fans who are stupid and pathetic. My apologies.

  132. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:41 pm —

    @marilove:
    I’m not making fun of you for your musical tastes though, I’m calling you an idiot because either you’re incapable of reading, or making the logical connection that I keep repeating.

    If you want to call me an idiot because I did something that makes me look like I have lower intelligence, like make a grammatical, spelling, or logical mistake, that’s fine. I’ll agree with you if I did something stupid, but I haven’t done anything, except enjoy a style of music that you don’t like.

  133. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:43 pm —

    Everyone keeps telling me to get thicker skin, like I’ve been somehow personally offended. I haven’t, I’m just arguing my point. Other than calling marilove an idiot, I haven’t even resorted to attacking another commenter. As for @jthewonderllama: if your comment was intended as a joke, I didn’t catch the meaning, text doesn’t convey inflection well, and I apologize if I insinuated that you were seriously demeaning myself or anyone. I don’t exactly find it funny, but now we’re on the matter of opinions, and you’re as welcome to yours as I feel I am to mine.

  134. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 3:44 pm —

    @cjdeak: On this one, I will beat marilove to the punch and call that a stupid mistake on my part. Rereading the original post, and in context, I understand now how it was meant as a joke, and I very clearly misinterpreted it.

  135. Profile photo of jtradke
    April 8, 2010 at 3:48 pm —

    COLDPLAY RULES

  136. Profile photo of Sunioc
    April 8, 2010 at 3:54 pm —

    @jtradke: All Coldplay fans are bedwetting sissies. :P

  137. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 3:56 pm —

    @jtradke: How ’bout Nickleback?

    All Nickelback fans are boring and whiny and smell bad.

  138. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 3:58 pm —

    @cjdeak: “like I’ve been somehow personally offended. ”

    You very clearly felt that way, because you took some light teasing of ICP fans and turned it into a BIG HUGE DEAL, when no one was ever being all that serious. Ironically, you seem to think that ICP lyrics are peachy-keen, but heaven forbid we give ICP fans a taste of their own medicine. We are suddenly evil, evil people! But ICP lyrics that are FAR more vile than us saying, “ICP fans are idiots”? Totes fine.

    Seriously. Get over yourself. No one here REALLY cares that much about your music tastes, I promise.

  139. Profile photo of jthewonderllama
    April 8, 2010 at 4:00 pm —

    We’re all mature skeptic here. We need to act like it. Instead of fighting like a barbaric bunch of ICP fans, lets just agree that the band is terrible, but people have a right to listen to them anyway.

    Also, ICP fans are worse than Hitler.

  140. Profile photo of ThickMcRunfast
    April 8, 2010 at 4:00 pm —

    I’m suddenly nostalgic for the intellectual discourse of the Twilight thread.

  141. Profile photo of jtradke
    April 8, 2010 at 4:04 pm —

    @Sunioc: TAKE IT BACK1!1 WHERE’S THE MODERATOR STAFF?!!

    Edit: MOAR EXCLAMATION POINTS

  142. Profile photo of Masala Skeptic
    April 8, 2010 at 4:05 pm —

    This is why I listen to a music selection comprised solely of Great Big Sea, Erasure and the Pet Shop Boys…

  143. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 4:06 pm —

    @marilove:
    I have already apologized for taking what I thought to be an entirely serious statement the wrong way, and have conceded I was obviously wrong to not realize it was a joke. And I don’t disagree that ICP lyrics are violent, and in cases misogynistic and homophobic and all sorts of other bad things, but it is MY OPINION that these things are meant to be taken in satire, and I think that’s an entirely different discussion (one I’m totally open to having), from a discussion of personal insults from one individual to another individual or group of individuals, based solely on their musical tastes.

  144. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 4:06 pm —

    Also! All country music fans are homophobic hicks.

    I say this as I listen to and sing along to country music on the radio.

  145. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 4:07 pm —

    @jthewonderllama: Yeah…and I have a right to have low opinions of people who call themselves Juggalos without any hint of irony.

  146. Profile photo of Elyse
    April 8, 2010 at 4:08 pm —

    I HAVE BIEBER FEVER!!!

  147. Profile photo of Zapski
    April 8, 2010 at 4:10 pm —

    :: eats Raisinetsâ„¢ ::

    :: sips Cokeâ„¢ ::

  148. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 4:11 pm —

    @marilove:
    You certainly are, but “ICP fans are idiots” is not an opnion. Someone’s overall intelligence is not a matter of subjective discussion. If you were to say “ICP fans have idiotic taste in music” that would be another matter entirely.

  149. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 4:13 pm —

    Also, can you please note that I NEVER once called you or any other ICP fan an idiot? That was other people. Sure, I can’t say I necessarily disagree, but I never once actually insulted you. I got close with “If you want to like them … fine, but I can think you’re an idiot with poor taste in music. I have that right.” but even that wasn’t a direct insult, but was rather just “I have the right to that opinion.”

    I have only commented on your self-righteous overreaction.

  150. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 4:18 pm —

    @Elyse: You know what’s funny? I had a pretty MEH opinion of Bieber.

    Until this:
    http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b175416_justin_bieber_laughs_off_crazy_heck.html?utm_source=eonline&utm_medium=rssfeeds&utm_campaign=rss_topstories

    That was kind of endearing.

  151. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 4:19 pm —

    @marilove: You’re right, and I apologize. I have been overly defensive towards you in particular because you’ve been putting up the most argument, but upon rereading the entirety of this thread, you have actually maintained a level of civility, and I sincerely apologize for insinuating otherwise. Please try and understand my point of view, that I’m the only commenter out of the 140+ posts on this page that even remotely likes ICP, and I reacted harshly after reading the first few absolutely inflammatory posts (like the post I now understand was meant as a joke, but at the time read as a generalizing insult). Also, I apologize for calling you an idiot. It was more out of spite, and anger at the fact that a community of people supposedly dedicated above all to openminded ness and free thinkinHOLYSHIT IS THAT A JUGGALO OH MY GOD IT’S THE FUCKING DEVIL.

    You see what I mean?

  152. Profile photo of marilove
    April 8, 2010 at 4:24 pm —

    @cjdeak: IDK, dude, you really, really didn’t help when it comes to people’s opinions of Juggalos. Indeed, you came very close to proving our opinions right.

    No one called Juggalos devils. Making fun of Juggalos =/= thinking they are evil (though I’m sure a big chunk of them are pretty awful people … trust me, I used to know a bunch of assholes who called themselves Juggalos, and they are pretty par for the course).

    Why you want to associate yourself with such people I will never undrestand. There’s a reason people have such strong opinions of people who call themselves Juggalos. I’ve NEVER met someone who called themselves a Juggalo in seriousness that wasn’t a sexist, homophobic asshole.

    There’s also a reason why people hate Nickelback fans. They all smell bad.

  153. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 8, 2010 at 4:28 pm —

    @Sunioc: Really?!? No shit, not their real names…, well John Wayne fucking Gacy, boy are I a dumb some times.

  154. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 4:34 pm —

    @Bjornar: musical quality is subjective to a point. Sure, there would be no way to definitevely rank every band or musician ever in order of quality, but there are objective indicators of quality that one can look for in music (complexity, originality, or effectiveness of rhythm, melody, lyrics, tone etc. for example). Insane Clown Posse fails at pretty much everything I can think of except writing the lyrical equivilent to middle school bathroom graffiti. People are certainly allowed to like bad music, but to pretend there’s no such thing as bad music is unrealistic.

    That said, it’s up to each individual to determine what their standards of quality are. I prefer interesting rhythms, concise songwriting, lyrical ambiguity, and dissonant harmonies to name a few things. I have no ‘guilty pleasures’ when it comes to music, and I will gladly defend bands I like with objective measures of quality. There’s also a ton of stuff that I don’t really like, but would still consider good music.

  155. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 4:38 pm —

    @marilove: I disagree I’ve been proving your point, I haven’t said anything violent, or angry, or even anything insulting aside from mistakenly calling you an idiot, for which I later apologized. I do concede there are a lot of idiot Juggalos, but there are lots of people who take all kinds of music, especially the violent venting kind, the wrong way.

    And for the record, I don’t know if you’d consider this ‘meeting’, but Hi, my name’s Chris, I’m a Juggalo. We are a community bound by a common agreement that all humans are brothers and sisters, and there is nothing more important than how we treat one another. I am a straight white male living in the American south, but I am a very vocal civil rights advocate, especially on issues that DON’T affect me, because there’s no reason people should try and decide things for other people (I’ve joined anti-antiabortion counterprotests at Planned Parenthood, but have never even been close to being a father myself. I’ve put my names on dozens of gay rights petitions, because ALL of my friends deserve to be with whoever they want to love, not just some of them.)

    The following lyrics should emphasize what Juggalos are supposed to represent, and you should start telling the ones that don’t act like this just how anti-Juggalo they’re acting:

    http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/icpinsaneclownposse/webelong.html

    The idea is that every Juggalo is a part of something bigger, a family and support system that, whether or not you ever even meet another Juggalo, you know is there.

    I think we’ve about reached the end of the argument though, and I’m sorry for anything I said that came across as personally offensive or directed towards you, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this discussion, even if I did let myself go a little too far in my retorts, and let them spread to people who did not make the comment I was rebutting.

  156. Profile photo of Andrew Nixon
    April 8, 2010 at 4:38 pm —

    @Expatria: COTW!

    When I saw this post this morning I never thought it would attract this many comments.

    I’d never really bothered with Insane Clown Posse (I still can’t believe that anyone could request music by a band with that name and keep a straight face, but their fans gave themselves the moniker “juggalo”, so go figure), it’s not my type of music, but after reading some of the comments here, I decided to have a listen for the first time in a long time.

    I wish I could repress that memory. Damn it’s bad.

  157. Profile photo of Andrew Nixon
    April 8, 2010 at 4:43 pm —

    @cjdeak: Whilst I have to admit I quite like the rhyme of material with venereal, are you saying that calling women “bitches” is one of the things that represents what Juggalos are about?

  158. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 4:44 pm —

    @Andrew Nixon: Yeah, agreed, @Expatria: COTW

  159. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 8, 2010 at 4:44 pm —

    @Zapski: Can you pass me the Reese’s Piecesâ„¢? *munch munch munch*

  160. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 4:45 pm —

    @cjdeak: I think this is even creepier than a bunch of assholes who like to paint their faces and act a fool. A global community of people connected by the love of Faygo soda and lyrical odes to stabbing? I mean, love or hate the music, but that’s just weird. It also doesn’t really sound like you have all that much in common with most juggalos, so it’s weird that you would feel that connected just because you bought some of the same cd’s and probably own some regrettable t-shirts. It sounds like you would identify better with most humanists than most juggalos.

  161. Profile photo of Bjornar
    April 8, 2010 at 4:46 pm —

    @marilove:

    @Bjornar: “bigoted dickwads” for making fun of a band?

    Man, some people take their shitty tastes far too seriously.

    No. Bigoted dickwads for posting things like

    ICP is a fucking shit band and I can’t take anyone who likes them seriously. And for good reason.

    Now I apologise for posting with the same level of profanity, but accusing someone of taking his music tastes too seriously while telling him you can’t take him seriously because of his taste in music…

  162. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 4:46 pm —

    @Andrew Nixon: to be fair, “bitch” is often used a s a gender-neutral pronoun in the context of hip-hop.

  163. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 4:47 pm —

    @Andrew Nixon: No, we do not indiscriminately call all women bitches. The particular lyrics of the song don’t use it as an insult, and while I think it’s a point worth arguing whether or not rappers should use terms like that, I don’t think they seriously meant it as a generalized insult on women, so much as they’re from Detroit and they’re rappers and that’s how their vocabularies are.

  164. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 4:48 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake:
    In this case, the specific lyric I think he meant was “some bitches titty dance cause their babies are crying, others say they dancing for college you know that they lying”, so it wasn’t gender neutral in this case.

  165. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 4:52 pm —

    Neutral was the wrong word… non-gender specific would be more accurate, like ‘pal’ or ‘dude’ (traditionally male, but I use it for both genders). Just trying to point out that it’s not meant as a specific slight against women in most cases.

  166. Profile photo of Danarra
    April 8, 2010 at 4:53 pm —

    Wait a minute – I’m from Detroit and I think I’m offended by that…

  167. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 4:56 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: Actually, I don’t own a single ICP t-shirt, though for no particular reason. Maybe I’ve been extra fortunate to have only met a few of the bad juggalos (and yes, I have met them), but for the most part, the ones I’ve met are like me, they understand the meaning between the lyrics, and they listen to the story the albums tell, and the moral that story tries to employ (In the ICP album mythology, the Dark Carnival is the afterlife that comes, and each album represents a Joker’s Card, or Judge so to speak, such as the Ringmaster who oversees the carnival, the dark magician Milenko who punishes the wicked, specifically racists and biggots, the twin jugglers Jake and Jack Jeckel, who upon your death will juggle your sins, with the greater number of sins adding to the difficulty of the routine. (If they drop one of the balls, your sin, it means your sins were too heavy for them to bear, and you are dragged to Hell’s Pit. There is also the Riddlebox, a judgement similar to the Jeckel Brothers. You turn the crank on a jack-in-the-box, that based on how many sins you’ve committed, opens to either reveal the path to Shangri-La, or rips the floor from beneath you and again, dragged to Hell’s Pit. The dual albums The Wraith (:Of Shangri-La and :Of Hell’s Pit) represent the guardian of the domains, the twin Reapers who ferry the souls themselves to the light or darkness. Shangri-La is an uplifting album designed to share the things a “good member of the Carnival” should do to get into Shangri-La, and Hell’s Pit is a description of Hell and the type of people found there, murderers and rapists and bigots and wifebeaters and childbeaters and child molesters (all of which are mentioned specifically, with an entire song, CPK, which stands for Crooked Preacha Killa, dedicated to the special level of hell reserved for pedophile preists)

    I go into this litany to descrtibe how the message is passed through an overarching story, not through individual song lyrics, which may each be telling an individual story, maybe even from the point of view of one of the sinners, such as the case on Hell’s Pit, where each song has the duo portraying the evildoers who in the end get taken to hell.

  168. Profile photo of Zapski
    April 8, 2010 at 4:56 pm —

    @Skept-artist: Here you go. I got some Whoppersâ„¢ too.

  169. Profile photo of Andrew Nixon
    April 8, 2010 at 4:59 pm —

    @Danarra: I was going to say that – not the bit about being from Detroit, but about most people from Detroit having much better vocabularies than the ICP would seem to. And a lot of rappers too.

    @cjdeak: And I thought Christianity sounded ludicrous. Please tell me you didn’t have a straight face when typing that out?

  170. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 5:00 pm —

    @cjdeak: I’m not asking this with any sort of judgment, but how old are you? You can feel free not to answer, it would just help me understand who I’m talking to a bit better.

  171. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 5:01 pm —

    @Andrew Nixon:
    Nobody claims it’s actual belief system, silly. I’m as atheist as they come (7 on the Dawkins Scale), I’m just talking about in the context of the story they tell with their music, and the metaphors in it

  172. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 5:02 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: I don’t mind answering, I’m 19 years old. I’m a high school graduate with certifications in computer repair and networking maintenance, and I also like to fancy myself a decent writer, despite my tendency to let my anger lead to run-on sentences.

  173. Profile photo of Andrew Nixon
    April 8, 2010 at 5:02 pm —

    @cjdeak: Oh I know, I just want to make sure you realise how silly it sounds.

  174. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 5:03 pm —

    @Andrew Nixon: there’s Detroit Velvet Smooth (AKA DVD), but he’s really from Monkton.

  175. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 5:03 pm —

    @Andrew Nixon: Well I would call anyone who actually believed that happened when you died quite silly, as much so as someone who told me they got a Hogwarts acceptance letter.

  176. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 5:06 pm —

    @Andrew Nixon: I like ICP mostly for the same reason I like artists like them, like Tech N9ne, Kottonmouth Kings, Kingspade, Krizz Kaliko, or outside their collection of friends, artists like Kid Cudi, Eminem, Warren G, The Gorillaz, but dislike artists like say, to take a song that is currently driving me berzerk, “Tic Tok” by Kesha. That is to say, if you’re going to rap quickly, it’s much more impressive if you say the entire word.

    Also: Fort Minor

  177. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 8, 2010 at 5:08 pm —

    @Zapski: Thanks dude. I brought some chocolate covered pretzels too.*munch munch munch*

  178. Profile photo of Bjornar
    April 8, 2010 at 5:08 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: In my experience, appreciating music that is “good” based on so called objective indicators is a learned behaviour. I’ve yet to come across any evidence that “high quality” music is quantifiably “better” than “low quality” music.

    I apologise for the high frequency of quote marks, but the quantifiable difference between high quality and low quality, is just in those objective indicators. It doesn’t translate into “people will like this”, just into “people who by training or accident of birth judge music this way will define it as high quality, and may like it or dislike it for other, entirely unquantifiable, reasons”.

  179. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 5:09 pm —

    @cjdeak: That makes sense. There’s a pretty big difference between a teenager with that level of devotion to ICP and someone who’s a decade or two older. I grew up when ICP was first coming around and their fans were almost all the dumbest assholes at my school and most aging juggalos I’ve met since haven’t changed much.

    You, on the other hand, seem to have your head on relatively straight and you have an interest in digging in to music to find meaning. I hope you don’t get too wrapped up in the juggalo community and you move on to find some music that’s more worthy of that level of scrutiny. There’s people who do everything that ICP does a hundred times better and there are communities of people who do a much better job of actually adhering to what seem to be your core values.

  180. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 5:15 pm —

    @Bjornar: quality has nothing to do with translating into “people will like this”. And hell yeah it’s learned behavior. There’s a reason people study things like music, literature, art, etc. Are you really gonna say there’s no such thing as a good book or a good painting? Sure there is disagreement among people who are into that stuff, but to claim that there are no objective measures with which those people could support their opinions is just kind of silly.

    Appreciating an art comes from devoting time to learning it or learning about it. Like I said, not everyone does that, so I don’t judge people for whom music isn’t as important (and judging someone’s taste is different, that’s more like asking “would I take a recommendation from this person?”). It’s my thing, it’s not everybody’s.

  181. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 5:18 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake:
    To clear up a misconception, I’m not particularly devoted to ICP, I’m not even a particularly active Juggalo, I only use the term to describe myself because the particular “Juggalo Family” I am a part of has come to be more of a family to me than my superfundamentalist parents. Honestly, I only listen to ICP when I’m upset or angry about something, generally arguing with those said parents. A more accurate description of my musical taste would range from Pete Fountain to Chuck Berry to The Beatles to Led Zeppelin to The Police to NoFX and Bad Religion and Eve 6 and I could go on and on, there’s really not a style of music I don’t like, although country and rap have to contain more artists I dislike than any other, I even enjoy a lot of country songs, and I’m an especially huge Lynyrd Skynyrd fan (although the current incaranation of the band has enraged me by performing on Sean Hannity’s Freedom Concert tour.)

  182. Profile photo of Sunioc
    April 8, 2010 at 5:20 pm —

    cjdeak, you may be an atheist, but you’re kinda starting to sound like a theist. I mean, you’re reading right from their playbook. All the violent stuff in ICP’s catalog is “not to be taken literally,” and being a Juggalo is about peace and love and all that jazz, and anybody who doesn’t follow your particular values is unJuggalo? I mean, if I replaced every instance of Shaggy or Violent J with Jesus and God, replaced ICP’s discography with the Bible, and replaced Juggalo with Christian, and we’ve got a good example of a typical christian.

  183. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 5:24 pm —

    @Sunioc:

    I agree with the concept of your point, but I don’t espouse my beliefs as a religion, or the only way, I’m just saying it’s my way; and someone who claims to be a Juggalo, then acts like the stereotypical asshole Juggalo that seems to be the mental picture most of these comments have, doesn’t understand the metaphor of the story. I’m not saying ANY parts of ICP should be taken totally literally, I’m saying it’s all meant as a fictional story, in parts satire and in parts metaphor. I’d be crazy to say anyone needed to live their lives solely by the values promulgated by those metaphors.

  184. Profile photo of Bjornar
    April 8, 2010 at 5:24 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: I’m not saying there are no objective measures, I’m saying they are not objective measures of “goodness”. By laying claim to the label “good” based on those criteria you are, to someone outside your mind, judging people who base their evaluation purely on feeling.

    And by claiming they don’t consider music to be as important as you do because they don’t use those criteria you’re definitely judging them.

  185. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 8, 2010 at 5:29 pm —

    Wow.

    And I thought Styx had some rediculous concept albums.

    Domo arigato.

  186. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 5:41 pm —

    @Bjornar: I’m not judging anything else about them as people, though. I don’t think someone is dumb or an asshole because of the music they like. I also don’t think you have to like good music, music serves a lot of purposes, and while some music might fulfill certain needs for a person, that doesn’t make it good.

    I have had my tastes radically changed by people with different opinions than me who cared enough to argue with me about why a particular band/genre/artist was good and I am thankful for those people. I’ve never found any value in the “it’s all subjective, maaan” argument.

    I think that because music is more ubiquitous than other art and serves more purposes, people are more easily offended if music they like is dismissed as “bad”. If I said John Grisham books were bad and John Steinbeck books were good, I don’t think I’d get as much flack.

  187. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 8, 2010 at 5:48 pm —

    Maybe not, but try saying that Ayn Rand’s books suck donkey dick and watch the fireworks.

  188. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 5:49 pm —

    Ayn Rand is the ICP of books.

  189. Profile photo of IBY
    April 8, 2010 at 5:58 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake
    I read Ayn Rand’s Anthem, and although I knew plenty of people in my class that liked them, for some reason I could not bring myself to like them. It was so freaking boring! The main character is so monotonous, he just puts me to sleep.

  190. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 5:58 pm —

    after 185 comments I have finally watched this video (was at work all day). I just can’t believe these guys have been rapping for over a decade. These dudes have the flow of a car dealership owner who just learned about rapping and decided he should rap in his latest commercial.

    This is the video I referenced earlier btw:

  191. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 8, 2010 at 6:00 pm —

    The only thing that can salvage this discussion is The Dickies, and their video for the song Banana Split.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flMS2gHFOH0

    Or possibly a little All Your Base Are Belong To Us:

  192. Profile photo of cjdeak
    April 8, 2010 at 6:15 pm —

    I’ll just leave this here

  193. Profile photo of sexysecularist
    April 8, 2010 at 6:22 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: At the very least, a cursory listen to any ICP song reveals that they use almost the exact same kick-snare pattern in EVERY SINGLE SONG. Sometimes it’s slower, sometimes it’s faster, sometimes one of the kicks is displaced, and once in a blue moon we get a two-bar phrase, but that’s it.

    If the vocal rhythms never vary past the eighth note and barely even go to dotted rhythms, if the rhyme patterns never change, and if the beats are pre-packaged garbage, it’s safe to assume that ICB is crap. This is rhythmically-based music made by people who can’t understand rhythm.

    You can defend ICB based on their lyrical content, just as you can defend The Mountain Goats based on their lyrical content, but I think a good rule for this type of music is, “If your lyrics are meaningful but your music is irredeemable garbage, be a poet or polemicist.”

  194. Profile photo of Trotter Jelly
    April 8, 2010 at 6:23 pm —

    @biguglyjim: In this thread, I’d have thought that the theme to Killer Klowns from Outer Space would be the Dickies song to mention.

  195. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 8, 2010 at 6:58 pm —

    Perhaps, but I love Banana Split for it’s ridiculously cute nature. ;) And most threads are more suited to Stuart by the Dead Milkmen, so when I get the chance, I jump at it.

  196. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 8, 2010 at 8:17 pm —

    “Ayn Rand is the ICP of books.”

    Haha, COTW.

  197. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 8, 2010 at 9:17 pm —

    @sexysecularist: I like everything about that post and agree up and down.

  198. Profile photo of porlob
    April 8, 2010 at 11:50 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: COTW!

    Not only is it an objective fact (KIDDING! It’s subjective… but true), but it’ll also stir up an awesome shitstorm should it actually be crowned COTW.

  199. Profile photo of Displaced Northerner
    April 9, 2010 at 12:03 am —

    Ok, so I made the commitment (mostly b/c I can’t sleep) and read every comment here. I laughed throughout the heated discussion. The entire time, I kept waiting for the big reveal- CJ has been fucking with everyone this whole time. Imagine my disappointment when I got to 194 without the payoff. Really? No reveal?

  200. Profile photo of
    April 9, 2010 at 12:33 am —

    come on, seriously you pencil pushing nerds you don’t have to analize everything that closely. icp isn’t “anti-science”. the song is just supposed to be entertaining, you aren’t supposed to hold a mangnifing glass to it and analize every last lyric. the basic idea is just that science can’t explain everything. they are rappers, entertainers if you will…they are there to tell a story that will engage your senses…not to teach a science class.

  201. Profile photo of
    April 9, 2010 at 1:00 am —

    you call yourself a “scientist”, but what science is there in dedicating an entire blog entry to HATE? that is your opinion, there is nothing factual or scientific in anything any of you have said. just a bunch of sad little nerds whining about their bloody tampons and who hate juggalos because they got their asses beat by people like us in high school, so they dedicated their lives to eh hem “science”….RIIIIGHHHT. lol.

  202. Profile photo of Zapski
    April 9, 2010 at 1:06 am —

    @Skept-artist: Aw dude! My favorite! om nom nom

  203. Profile photo of delphi_ote
    April 9, 2010 at 1:43 am —

    Did anyone else notice the irony that the only reason we can hear this asshole wondering how magnets work is that some scientists figured out how magnetism and electricity work? In the recording studio, the dumbass probably literally spoke these words to a magnet.

    Scientists took “fucking magnets” and converted music “just there in the air” into something “15,000 juggalos together” can hear. Scientists mastering electromagnetism were responsible for every technology that preserved his comments and transmitted them across space and time directly into my ears. If anyone should be getting pissed at those fuckers, it’s me!

  204. Profile photo of Andrew Nixon
    April 9, 2010 at 2:20 am —

    @delphi_ote: Yet another COTW worthy comment in this thread!

  205. Profile photo of Rebecca Watson
    April 9, 2010 at 4:50 am —

    First of all, I have to say: thank you. Thank you to everyone who commented for making this thread a pure joy to read.

    But particular thanks to @cjdeak and his friend @MMFCLFriend, the two juggalos bravely battling against the laughing and the pointing, and in doing so providing possibly the biggest laugh of this entire to-do. Allow me to share.

    @MMFCLFriend said

    And by the way, @jthewonderllama:

    I’d be glad to be his personal reference, having never even met him, but just knowing we’re brothers in the Carnival, I bet you I could call him at five in the morning (if I knew his phone number) and be like “Yo mang, can I rant for a bit, I’m having a tough day”, because that’s what ICP and the Juggalo ideas are all about.

    Now I’m gonna say something CJ was too polite to:

    Get over yourselves, douchebags.

    (He also said, “MMFCL (Much Motherfucking Clown Love, to those who don’t know) going atcha Seej, Love you Brother.” which is amazing and I will use that in the future, but that is beside the point.)

    It’s remarkable that MMCL is willing to vouch for cj even though he’s never met him. What’s more remarkable is that MMCL is posting from the very same computer as cj even though he’s never met him. That’s right: both have the exact same IP address.

    So, even though the one person to take a dig at all jugalos in general was joking when he said they were pathetic, one could make the case that he hasn’t actually been proved wrong yet.

  206. Profile photo of SmarterThanYouLook
    April 9, 2010 at 5:27 am —

    (starts up the beat box)

    Motherfuckin’ clown love, here’s a question I “ax”,
    Why settle for miracles? You could be lookin’ for facts.

    You could study physics, embrace chemistry,
    Ground yourself in science, set your intelligence free.

    Put away the makeup, and the oversized pants,
    Read a book by Sagan, watch the universe dance.

    Haven’t heard of Darwin, or Feynman, or Watson and Crick,
    Why Oppenheimer became death, or Marie Curie got sick.

    Maybe try some nerdcore, or the Hawking MC,
    But ditch the clown suit at the door, this skeptics’ “Insane Free”.

    (turns off beat box)

    I’m a 37 year old white guy. Of COURSE I can’t fucking rap.

  207. Profile photo of jimbobthomas
    April 9, 2010 at 5:29 am —

    Rebecca, doesn’t that mean they come from the same intellectual property address; ergo Juggaloism (or Juggalism? I can never say I’ve given it a moments thought)?

  208. Profile photo of Andrew Nixon
    April 9, 2010 at 5:56 am —

    @SmarterThanYouLook: Nice try, but I think Baba Brinkman does it a bit better with what is pretty much the exact opposite of this ICP track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAYVY2eLMck

  209. Profile photo of SmarterThanYouLook
    April 9, 2010 at 6:00 am —

    @Andrew Nixon:
    Oh totally, but I didn’t want to spend weeks in post production just to make fun of some Juggalos :)

  210. Profile photo of AJIrving
    April 9, 2010 at 7:17 am —

    @Rebecca Watson:

    I refer you to comment 113 @cjdeak:

    You see they don’t know each other however cjdeak will let MMFCLFriend use his computer if his comments are awaiting moderation. Now that’s the Juggalo spirit!

  211. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 9, 2010 at 8:05 am —

    @Zapski: *Yaaawn* Ugh, looks like we missed some stuff while sleeping. I made some coffee though. It’s on the counter. *slurp, slurp*

  212. Profile photo of exarch
    April 9, 2010 at 8:32 am —

    @Rebecca WatsonAs I was reading this thread, the only thing I could think of when CJ demanded moderation was @Rebecca Watson stepping in singing: “Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right …

  213. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 9, 2010 at 8:32 am —

    @smhink: If they wanted to tackle the subject of “science can’t explain anything” they shouldn’t have picked a bunch of stuff that EXTREMELY BASIC science explains quite handily. The thing is, there is a ton of mystery in the universe, and a healthy curiosity helps us uncover those mysteries and have a greater understanding of the place we live in. Choosing ignorance and saying “IT’S ALL MAGIC” is closing yourself off to understanding (as these guys have clearly demonstrated). Go watch Cosmos to see someone with the capacity to do this sort of thing do it right.

    As for your second post, thank you for proving every negative stereotype about your idiotic subculture right, including some handy internet tough-guyisms. Do you expect to hurt our feelings by insinuating that we spend our time, y’know, learning stuff? Do you think that saying stuff like that does anything but reveal your complete and total ignorance? We’re not in high school, we don’t take flailing insults from intellectual lightweights seriously.

  214. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 9, 2010 at 8:40 am —

    P.S. I think one of my favorite things is when some idiot who has never had an interest in science in his entire life stumbles into a place like this or pharyngula and attempts to tell people (of whom many have spent years studying the subject in depth) what is or isn’t science (nevermind not realizing that a skeptical blog doesn’t contain 100% hard science).

  215. Profile photo of km82
    April 9, 2010 at 8:41 am —

    @cjdeak You seem like a very intelligent guy, I think adopting the roll of a Juggalo will always garner you critisism and insults. If that’s how you want to describe yourself and it makes you happy, more power to you.

    The Insane Clown Posse are just two guys who dropped out of high school and got lucky with a gimmic nobody thought would fly. They obviously cater to a certain type of person but as with any entertainment, it’s not exclusive to any one personality.

    I myself used to be a fan and gradually grew out of it. It’s fun, it’s senseless and that’s all it ever had to be. Not every horror movie can be The Exorcist, someone has to make a Fear Dot Com. ICP is a b-level act and Juggalos are b-level fans. @cjdeak Enjoy yourself. You know what you’re in it for and it probably won’t last forever.

    The post was about the song “Miracles” and the video that accompanies it. Both are awful, even by ICP standards. This is what comes of guys like ICP who struggle with adulthood and don’t realize how childish ideas like “I don’t understand this, it must be magic” won’t fly with most of the thinking population. They know magnets aren’t miracles, but as everyone’s pointed out, they’re not selling their product to a fanbase who understands or cares how magnets actually work.

    Oh, and they most definitely are homophobic, mysoginists and violent. They or their fans may play it off as satire but such is not the case. This played a major roll in my loss of interest in them and at some point, even if you’re trying to be funny, you have to be honest with yourself and admit that what comes out of your mouth tends to stem from what’s in your heart and in your mind.

    A band who wants you to believe they offer a following to which all people can belong can’t possibly be taken serious when they constantly exclude gays and degrade women. They make it clear they don’t believe in racial discrimination but they pad that message with hypocracy.

    In short, ICP are the guy you know who always says “Now, I’m not prejudiced, BUT…”

  216. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 9, 2010 at 8:44 am —

    @smhink
    Damn, you’re right.
    Everyone, he’s right! He’s motherfuckin’right!
    I remember getting beaten up because my brain kept getting bigger.

    Fuck, I can feel it growing now. FUCK!!!

    Does this hat make brain look fat?
    ANSWER ME!!! *sniff*

  217. Profile photo of Joshua
    April 9, 2010 at 8:47 am —

    @Expatria: COTW. COTM. COTY. COTETERNITY.

  218. Profile photo of Zapski
    April 9, 2010 at 9:01 am —

    @Skept-artist: Best. Marathon. Ever. I got donuts.

  219. Profile photo of Joshua
    April 9, 2010 at 9:11 am —

    I think my favourite thing about Juggalos is the way that they literally dress up like clowns, then act all surprised when people laugh at them.

    Dudes, you’re dressed like clowns! What did you expect?

  220. Profile photo of
    April 9, 2010 at 10:14 am —

    @mrmisconception
    first off, im not a he.
    secondly, that isn’t you’re brain that’s getting bigger, it’s your ego…that actually makes your brain shrink you know, as well as making you sound like a total doche bag.
    the whole point is, well they are clowns. insane clowns. and all you little geeks are on here analizing their rhymes, are you some grown ass retards? your not supposed to take everything a clown says seriously are you? no, clowns are entertainers. icp is for people who are NOT you. people that can take a joke. people that like being entertained. people who like music and fellowship, and who beleive there is something greater than themselves. right, NOT YOU. you can explain how things work, or how mountains and rainbows form all day…but do you know how to create those things? NO. the whole point to the song was that there are forces out there that are greater than you or me. asshole. tone down your ego a little bit. its always good to learn things, but remember you little twit you’re not the greatest force in the universe…you are a fucking worm in the sceam of things.
    and if your a scientist or a sceintificly thinking person, then go do that. go learn something new, go research something instead of wasting your time talking shit about something…for once in your life. dedicate your time to your own progression instead of destroying other peoples.
    and i dont care if you laugh at me. im proud to be a juggalette. and i dont give a fuck what any of ya’ll think about me. just make sure you know what you are talking about before you run your mouth-um or should i say keyboard coz im pretty sure none of you little pussy ass geeks would say this shit to a juggalo in person, haha itll give ya flashbacks to highschool.

  221. Profile photo of jimbobthomas
    April 9, 2010 at 10:17 am —

    @cjdeak Remember, they’re just a band..

  222. Profile photo of
    April 9, 2010 at 10:23 am —

    @mrmisconception
    hey look now your ego got so big that your brain shrank to the size of your penis!
    which im guessing isnt very big…hahahaha

  223. Profile photo of Andrew Nixon
    April 9, 2010 at 10:27 am —

    There’s a pretty good post about this video on MTV’s website: http://newsroom.mtv.com/2010/04/08/insane-clown-posse-miracles/

  224. Profile photo of jimbobthomas
    April 9, 2010 at 10:29 am —

    @smhink Little hint; if you are going to get on your high horse about people making generalisations about you and fellow Juggalo’s might I point out that not all free thinking, sensible people were on the chess/science team and had their lives made a living hell by populist braindead moron’s who were so desperate to not be the butt of the joke that they gladly joined in on picking on the pacifists in the group? Some of us would gladly sit down with your pals and explain why we find ICP and their ilk so offensive but if that caused a violent reaction would gladly give a practical demonstration of why Newtons’ third law is one of our favourites?

  225. Profile photo of Rebecca Watson
    April 9, 2010 at 10:30 am —

    @smhink:

    you can explain how things work, or how mountains and rainbows form all day…but do you know how to create those things? NO.

    Actually? YES. You can create a rainbow at home with a hose and some sunlight.

    IT’S LIKE A MIRACLE!

  226. Profile photo of SmarterThanYouLook
    April 9, 2010 at 10:32 am —

    @smhink:
    If we DID say that to a Juggalo in person, would they shoot us in the faces with their cute little squirting flower?

    How many Juggalo’s fit into a VW?

    It must be a real bitch finding shoes that fit.

    Or knowing that your greatest enemy is Batman…

  227. Profile photo of SmarterThanYouLook
    April 9, 2010 at 10:33 am —

    @Rebecca Watson:
    With a little bit of soap we can even make spherical rainbow forcefields! :P

  228. Profile photo of Sam Ogden
    April 9, 2010 at 10:54 am —

    @smhink:

    . . . you little pussy ass geeks. . .

    Put a comma after “pussy” and you’ve tapped into some of my fetishes.

  229. Profile photo of roysteves
    April 9, 2010 at 10:55 am —

    I regularly enjoy the juggalo studies carried out by one Jeffery Rolland (@wigu), a noted cultural anthropologist.

    That said, I registered as to congratulate @Expatria on the funniest thing I’ve seen in days.

    Well played, you magnificent bastard.

  230. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 9, 2010 at 11:09 am —

    It seems to think an interest in science precludes an interest in music. Read the thread again you barely literate circus fetishist. There are also people here who love and are interested in music, and guess what: ICP is as bad as that as they are at understanding basic science. I’m not even going to attempt to knock down all the strawmen in your post, so I’ll just paraphrase the great Walter Sobchak:

    Shut the fuck up juggalette, you’re out of your element.

    Seriously, you don’t have the capacity to even understand what people on here are saying. All you have is a few non-specific insults (that again belie your own lack of intelligence rather than pointing out ours, or our penis/brain size [wtf?]), rage, empty threats of violence (again, most of us weren’t stereotypical nerds or geeks in high school; I’m six-two and I drum intensively 4-5 nights a week, there are definitely people I wouldn’t fight but I’m no wuss), and enough ignorance to think you’re saying things that have any meaning.

    There’s so much projection in your post it’s not even funny. I suspect you might be jealous of those of us who have actually bothered to use the evolutionary gift of intellect to better ourselves instead of wasting time with our fake clown family and pseudo-evil/mentally ill posturing.

  231. Profile photo of Expatria
    April 9, 2010 at 11:12 am —

    @smhink:

    im pretty sure none of you little pussy ass geeks would say this shit to a juggalo in person, haha itll give ya flashbacks to highschool.

    It WILL give me flashbacks to high school, but I guess I should never have expected to truly move on from those four years at Ringling Brothers High ::sigh::

  232. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 9, 2010 at 11:20 am —

    I guess this is pretty pointless. Once someone has neglected their implicit responsibility as a human being to actually use and develop their brain long enough, explaining why they’re wrong is about as useless as trying to explain to my cat how to build a bookshelf.

  233. Profile photo of Sam Ogden
    April 9, 2010 at 11:22 am —

    @mikerattlesnake:

    Shut the fuck up juggalette . . . .

    Are you kidding?? This is gold, man.

    Of course it would be nice to stop all the name-calling and focus on the bigger issues. Like who would win in a fight between the Juggalos and the KISS Army.

  234. Profile photo of Rebecca Watson
    April 9, 2010 at 11:29 am —

    @Sam Ogden:

    Like who would win in a fight between the Juggalos and the KISS Army.

    Obviously the only winner would be the Good Time Costume Supply Warehouse

  235. Profile photo of Expatria
    April 9, 2010 at 11:30 am —

    @Sam Ogden:

    My guess is that they’ll both be defeated when Hulk Hogan, his 24-inch pythons, and all of his Hulkamaniacs run wild over them. Because, well, whatcha gonna do…

    … brother?

  236. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 9, 2010 at 11:35 am —

    @Sam Ogden: all of them vs. william wallace.

    The winner of course being Doug’s Good Time Disposable Diaper Dispensary.

    “Ye call that an axe?! THIS IS AN AXE!”

  237. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 11:36 am —

    Creepy: Getting busy and not being able to check back on this thread at all yesterday afternoon/evening, and then having a certain Juggalo start sending you incoherent, rambling messages about how awesome ICP is via facebook and how much of an idiot I am (it is a huge deal to know the difference between a band and a musical group, apparently). And having to block the creep because he won’t drop it.

    This is not helping with my opinion of Juggalos, yo.

  238. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 11:38 am —

    @Bjornar: If you had seen the incoherent, creepy messages he sent me on facebook (I had to block him), you’d start to agree with me.

    My opinions of Juggalos have not yet changed. Maybe one day I’ll meet an awesome, non-assholeish, non-childish Juggalo. I don’t think so, though.

  239. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 11:41 am —

    @cjdeak: “Some bitches tittie dance cause they babies are cryin,”

    Oh. So they represent misogyny. SURPRISE!

    And really @Bjornar, is this much different than assuming someone who LOVES Glenn Beck is likely an idiot who can’t think for himself? Because have you READ these lyrics? This band is clearly homophobic and misogynist, and their obsessed followers are all the same. Have you MET an actual Juggalo? I have.

    Go listen to their music. Read the lyrics. And get back to me.

    Yes, my opinion of someone who SERIOUSLY calls themselves a Juggalo (it’s not like he said, “I kinda dig their music” — he calls himself a Juggalo seriously) is about on par with someone who seriously says they love Glenn Beck and all that he represents.

  240. Profile photo of jthewonderllama
    April 9, 2010 at 11:48 am —

    @smhink
    “the whole point is, well they are clowns. insane clowns. and all you little geeks are on here analizing their rhymes, are you some grown ass retards?”

    I’ve taken the time to reflect on smhink’s barely coherent rant, and I’ve decided that she’s correct. Who are we to make fun of insane clowns? These poor clowns are clearly out of there tiny minds, and deserve professional attention, not our scorn.

    Are we some grown ass retards? Probably.

    Do we deserve do get our asses beat by people like smhink in a manner that will give us all flashbacks to high school? Definitely.

    In conclusion, most ICP fans are have trouble with basic spelling and grammar.

  241. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 11:53 am —

    @Rebecca Watson:

    So, even though the one person to take a dig at all jugalos in general was joking when he said they were pathetic, one could make the case that he hasn’t actually been proved wrong yet.

    OH FSM, I love you Rebecca.

    Now I know I was right to block him from my facebook, something I rarely do.

    @smhink:

    just a bunch of sad little nerds whining about their bloody tampons

    And yet….apparently…not all Juggallos are misogynist assholes…right?

  242. Profile photo of Sam Ogden
    April 9, 2010 at 11:54 am —

    @jthewonderllama:

    I thought all clowns were insane.

    The ones that hid under my bed and in my closet sure were, and I know those fuckers at the circus were covering for them.

  243. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 12:02 pm —

    @Sam Ogden: I think I’ve mentioned this before, but I’m related to PT Barnum, directly.

    Anyway, my grandmother is an awesome playwright and actress … and professional clown. Well, ex. But she has her own “registered” clown makeup/costume and everything. And she is awesome. And maybe just a little insane, so I’ll give you that. But awesome-insane.

    Oh and I took today off work…but I thought it was Saturday when I woke up. Then I remembered it’s actually Friday! Yay!

  244. Profile photo of gruk
    April 9, 2010 at 12:03 pm —

    @SmarterThanYouLook: Add a smidgen of glycerol to that and they’ll last longer (and you may possibly make them larger, as well).

  245. Profile photo of porlob
    April 9, 2010 at 12:08 pm —

    Oh dear god I have enjoyed this thread.

    That said, I really thing we all need to take a deep breath, step back, and consider some of the greater implications of all of this.

    Mainly, this: If all of them were scooped off the planet by some sort of classic Star Trek supergod and pitted against each other in a battle to the death, who would win, Juggalos or Twihards?

    Now, I know your first thought here will be Juggalos, as hypermasculinized muscleheads are much more well-represented than, say, swooning 13-year-olds in this group. Also, Juggalos probably have nun-chucks.

    But remember, Twihards have NUMBERS. I bet there’d be a good 5 or 6 Twilight fans for every ICP fan. Maybe more. Maybe much more.

    I think I’d wager on the Twihards on this one. But I don’t know, it’s a toughy.

  246. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 9, 2010 at 12:23 pm —

    @smhink: Thanks for that. I clean up messes that attitudes like yours can lead to. You are espousing a philosophical world view that is regrettable, pathetic and without a modicum of intellectual, moral or ethical integrity. Next thing you’ll be saying is that the Horst Wessel is just a song.

  247. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 9, 2010 at 12:27 pm —

    @James Fox: Shit, Godwin law violation. I’m pathetic.

  248. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 9, 2010 at 12:35 pm —

    @smhink See, the problem is they ARE just insane Clowns but the pretend to be so much more. I’d be making fun of any group that pretends to represent their fans while shitting on them. (Except for GWAR, which is pretty much their game.)

    And for somebody who doesn’t care about what others think of them, you sure did attack (did you see that@cjdeak? THIS is why people think you all are asshats.)

    I will, however, apologize for assuming you were a man. I am used to dealing with a better, more intelligent class of female (as my being here would attest), I assumed you were male because of your incoherance. My apologies.

    Oh, and don’t worry about me, I’ve learned since High School (you actually CAN learn, even when nobody is learnin’ ya) that fuckhead bullies don’t fight fair, so I don’t anymore either.

  249. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 12:51 pm —

    @mrmisconception: I sometimes forget that women can be just as gross and sexist as men, myself, so I also assumed she was a dude. I need to stop doing that.

  250. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 12:51 pm —

    @greenishblu: Replace “supergod” with “Q” — because this is totally something Q would do for shits and giggles.

  251. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 9, 2010 at 12:58 pm —

    Rebecca, I would be worried if I were you.
    Dan O’Brien over at Cracked.com is thinking like you.
    Unsettling thought. Motherfuckin’ funny, but unsettling none the less.

    http://tinyurl.com/y9bze6s

  252. Profile photo of DataJack
    April 9, 2010 at 1:21 pm —

    @Tortorific: COTW for giving it to ‘em in their own language!

  253. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 1:44 pm —

    @mrmisconception: Surprise! The 7th comment is an offended fan. Hahaha. Good times. I wonder if it’s our resident Juggalo.

  254. Profile photo of Elyse
    April 9, 2010 at 1:46 pm —

    Dear Juggalos,

    I am certain that you were major badasses in high school. I am also certain that none of the geeks here are actually afraid of you kicking their asses at the bike rack… even if you are one of those bad kids who smokes and stays out 15 minutes after curfew.

    I’m sorry your music sucks. But trolling the internet proclaiming ICP’s awesomeness is not going to change the reality that they do, indeed, suck… very much.

    Perhaps it’s one of those concepts that’s too hard to grasp… like fuckin’ rainbows.

  255. Profile photo of catcubed
    April 9, 2010 at 1:47 pm —

    Hilarious! Really amazing how far down the rabbit hole they’ve gone over the past decade. I actually own a few ICP albums from their early days and have been to a couple concerts (which were like Gwar concerts but with Faygo instead of blood). They actually were pretty great in a B-movie way back then in their ridiculous HorrorCore Rap days before they (and their fans) started taking themselves too seriously. Not quite as good as the Gravediggaz but still fun.

  256. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 1:56 pm —

    @catcubed: I’ve been looking up GWAR and while their music is not at all anything I’m into, they don’t seem to be on the same level as ICP. First of all, their costumes are a lot cooler and more complex, and their subject matter also seems to be more complex. I dig the sci-fi/horror thing they’ve got going on.

    Also this cracked me up: ‘Dave Brockie has been quoted as saying “…it doesn’t mean Gay Women Against Rape. It doesn’t mean Great White Aryan Race. It doesn’t mean Gay Weird Anal Reprobates. It doesn’t even mean God What an Awful Racket. It just means Gwar, which means everything pretty much.”‘

    ‘God What an Awful Racket”. LOL. That’s about what I think of most hardcore metal. ;)

    I get the idea this what GWAR represents is basically what ICP wanted to aim for, but they totally missed the mark.

  257. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 9, 2010 at 2:08 pm —

    Yeah, see I don’t like GWAR either but the fact that their tongues are firmly planted in their cheeks makes me laugh.
    If they came out and “meant it” they would be a rediculous as ICP.
    I like U2 but they all take themselves far too seriously. I can’t watch them any more. Or R.E.M., or Sting.

    Damn, give me Huey Lewis over any of them, or even Bon Jovi. The music’s not as good but they can make fun of themselves.

  258. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 9, 2010 at 2:08 pm —

    GWAR was started as a thesis about how bad you could make music and still get people to show up. Gwar is hilarious and they make terrible music.

  259. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 9, 2010 at 2:13 pm —

    @smhink:

    HAHAHAHA!

    How are mountains made? Plate tectonics.

    How are rainbows made? Light refraction.

    But Juggalos? They aren’t made, baby, they’re born.

    Would I talk shit to a juggalo in person? Sure do. Doesn’t flash me back to high school, aside from the fact that I’m talking to someone who looks like they never figured out that high school was over.

    The more they post on here, the more I hope the next plague targets people with bad skin from clown paint. They’re like a dumb version of anti-vaxxers!

    As a parting shot, enjoy this video about a great jugalette: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMv9d1pIoBA

  260. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 9, 2010 at 2:21 pm —

    I just realized that when you say Juggalette out loud it sounds like Chuckle Head.

    Case rested.

  261. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 9, 2010 at 2:28 pm —

    Extremists are just fun no matter what they are. I sometimes get to play a set with a bunch of metal bands, and when I do I make sure to dedicate songs to Dimebag Daryll. I do it all sarcastic, so they know I’m being a dick. Metalheads will approach me after the show and tell me that we were awesome, but “you gotta lay off the Double D, man.” Smaller friends of mine have almost been in fights over saying he wasn’t that good a guitarist.

    @marilove: Don’t forget, he told you you look like a man! That’s right, people, I’ve read the incoherent ravings of the Juggalonian Horde!

    Interestingly, the initial juggalo poster didn’t resort to threats, but the two other Juggalites immediately went to calling us all pussies and saying they would high school-style thug-whup us. Jock mentality amongst fat kids? Creepy!

    I imagine on some juggalo fan site there’s a thread:

    OMG YO! CLOWN POWER! WHITE CAKE PAINT PRIDE WORLD WIDE!
    Dear juggalo family,

    Some muthafuckin pussie grown ass retards said shit about our boiz! Grab yo clown shoes an yo pistols and pwn dem noobs with tha sickness! Respect!

  262. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 2:36 pm —

    @mikerattlesnake: Hahahah that’s kind of awesome, actually.

    @biguglyjim: He told me I looked like a man? I feel like I’m missing something!

    Also the second guy was just a sock of the first.

  263. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 9, 2010 at 2:38 pm —

    If you want to know more about Gwar, check out this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNHtZUd7CO0

    This is them in 1990 showing up at the Much Music studios. This was the first time I ever saw them, and it made me giggle like a tit.

  264. Profile photo of Rebel 16
    April 9, 2010 at 2:42 pm —

    @greenishblu:

    Mainly, this: If all of them were scooped off the planet by some sort of classic Star Trek supergod and pitted against each other in a battle to the death, who would win, Juggalos or Twihards?

    Everybody. Everybody wins.

  265. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 2:49 pm —

    @biguglyjim: That … was… hysterical. The costumes are insane! I am speechless.

  266. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 9, 2010 at 2:52 pm —

    @Rebel 16
    It might be too late for this, but COTW, COTW, haha COTW

  267. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 9, 2010 at 2:52 pm —

    Gwar is (in my opinion) performance art. Of course, I also think/hope that Rush Limbaugh is performance art, and one day he’s going to take off his mask and reveal himself to be Robin Williams…

  268. Profile photo of Rebecca Watson
    April 9, 2010 at 3:08 pm —

    @Thisislame: I love that comment so much I approved it!

    You are someone who had the spare time to make pictures of different things from a song by ICP, you spent the time studying the lyrics and thinking about what to write, you get nothing from this, no money, no doors are opened, you get some e-props from internet try hard elitists who are suffering from sore wrists for spending too much time on /s/.

    Think about it. You don’t even own this website, you don’t have your own domain name to post stuff like this up, instead you are using somebody elses. What have you done in your life? Spent what looks like 5 + hours to make fun of to 30+ year olds in clown paint? REAAAAL productive.

    Are you so stupid that you posted this comment to the wrong web site, or are you so stupid that you actually thought all these things are true? Why do you think I don’t own this web site and domain name? Why do you think I lovingly crafted those pictures out of clay and bits of string? Do you not know how the Internet works? At all?

    There are so many different possibilities for how stupid you are, it’s . . . it’s . . . it’s like magic.

  269. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 9, 2010 at 3:10 pm —

    @Zapski: I just got some pizza if you want some. This is the best episode of Skepchick, ever! I loved the part where Rebecca is all “here’s your magic rainbow, POW”. And then Expatria was like, “blahblah hilarious comment”. That cracked me up! And then the Juggalette goes, “beep boop, pussy ass nerds”.
    The writing on this show get better and better. Thanks for having me over!

  270. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 9, 2010 at 3:15 pm —

    @Thisislame

    Yeah, we sure are lame. Hey, here’s a mirror! Let’s see what it says!

    Turns out the mirror tells me you don’t won this web site, you don’t provide a web site link of your own (do you own your own domain?) and clearly haven’t done much with your life, aside from spend 5+ hours making fun of us for not liking the clowns you love so much. But the mirror assures me that you’ve been much more productive than us.

    Oh, and the mirror also asked if you wouldn’t just do it a favor and die from disfiguring gential warts. Not my words, I swear! It was the mirror.

  271. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 9, 2010 at 3:24 pm —

    @Thisislame: I’m not jealous of people with more money than sense. All their millions couldn’t buy them an intelligent thought.

  272. Profile photo of Rebecca Watson
    April 9, 2010 at 3:26 pm —

    @Rebecca Watson: OH MY FUCKING GOD I WAS RIGHT! It was option A! @Thisislame was so stupid that s/he posted this comment on the wrong web site. I know because it already posted the comment here:

    http://www.cracked.com/blog/learn-your-motherfuckin-science-with-the-icp

    lol!

  273. Profile photo of Zapski
    April 9, 2010 at 3:33 pm —

    @Skept-artist: I’m Hip! I loved the bit where Marilove is all like “You think you can argue online? Well let me show you the merchandise!” and goes all Mr. Miyagi on the dude!

    Then Rebecca’s all like going Super Saiyan on the guy with the mega powerups! Too freaking awesome.

    Man I cannot wait for the DVD release.

  274. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 3:35 pm —

    @Rebecca Watson: I noticed that comment right away on the cracked site…and now it’s here, too. Friend of the original Juggalo? WTF? That is hilarious stuff.

  275. Profile photo of Expatria
    April 9, 2010 at 4:01 pm —

    @Zapski & @Skept-artist

    There’s going to be a commentary track where I’m in character the whole time as a Juggalo named Greasepaint Stainz. YOU WON’T WANT TO MISS IT!

  276. Profile photo of SteveT
    April 9, 2010 at 4:13 pm —

    @Zapski: Damn! You wouldn’t believe the line at the snack bar! And I don’t even LIKE Gummi Worms all that much. Sorry I’m late, I could hear the shouting from down the hall. Has it started yet, or are these just the previews? What’d I miss?

  277. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 9, 2010 at 4:19 pm —

    @Zapski: Totally. Rad. DVD release party at my place! Everyone’s invited.
    @Expatria: Good god man. You’re fucking on fire in this thread!

  278. Profile photo of Expatria
    April 9, 2010 at 4:50 pm —

    @Skept-artist:

    Thanks! But then again this subject provides — what’s the phrase? — a target-rich environment :-P

  279. Profile photo of MarianLibrarian
    April 9, 2010 at 5:49 pm —

    I’m still laughing over @mikerattlesnake

    “Ayn Rand is the ICP of books.”

    I want to know who would win in a death battle between juggalos and Objectivists. Wait, no. Juggalos would win. They have hatchets. Objectivists just have Modernist architecture.

  280. Profile photo of Gullible Jones
    April 9, 2010 at 9:19 pm —

    Ha ha ha… Oh gods that was the most dimwitted video I’ve seen in a long time. Really, anyone who takes these guys seriously has to be an incurable fool.

  281. Profile photo of biguglyjim
    April 9, 2010 at 9:35 pm —

    Can’t stop myself! Two Juggalos are talking. It’s a conversation where one doesn’t want to wear clown paint. The other says:

    “Yo, trick, if you don’t bust that clown love all up in your face I’mma sick my prostitutes on you to whup yo bitch ass.”

    Google translator from Juggalo to English: ENGAGE!

    “It puts the juggalotion on it’s skin or else it gets the hoes again.”

  282. Profile photo of
    April 9, 2010 at 10:10 pm —

    oh…my…god…i never said i was a scientist did I? i never claimed to know anything about science, it’s not my strong point im more of a right brained person. but when i read this blog about icp, i couldn’t believe people would actually dedicate this much time into hating another group of people. i was only trying to find some common ground, and point out that maybe you guys were taking things a little too seriously. wow you guys are nothing but a bunch of hate mongers. why do you hate so much? seriously? does it make you feel better? so you know more about science than me, kudos to you. and its not like you guys are coming up with any amazing scientific discoveries on this webpage anyway…uh yeah. lol! you guys are worse than a whiney little gossip sewing circle…its pathetic. you guys need a girlfriend.

  283. Profile photo of
    April 9, 2010 at 10:14 pm —

    you cant create a mountain, an ocean, and you can only simulate a rainbow not create one from a storm, so get your shit straight. you cant create stars, universes, trees, rivers, you can’t explain where we go when we die. science has failed our mother earth.

  284. Profile photo of
    April 9, 2010 at 10:23 pm —

    OH and BTW the only reason i stumbled on this webpage in the first place is because y’all were talking smack about ICP…maybe if you woulda been doin ya know somethin…scientific! people wouldnt be botherin you. but these guys only put this on here to attract site hits, because people LOVE TO HATE. they writhe in it. it doesn’t have a damn thing to do with science. admit it, it has to do with your obcession of hating people and things you don’t understand because if you dont understand something your egos are so big that you would rather step all over people than try to understand them. i dont think im tough, nor am i trying to be. but at least i can say im a chill down to earth person that is open minded and understanding and i dont think im the center of the universe. and i dont use HATE mongering to get site hits and attention.

  285. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 9, 2010 at 10:30 pm —

    This is Skept-artist’s wife. He’s still logged in but out partying. I got his permission to post though.
    I just want to tell you all about a guy in my high school that LOVED ICP. He would put his hand down his pants, grab a few pubes and put them on the closest classmate’s desk. Yeah, ICP is and always will be on my shit list because they may have caused my desk in high school to contract crabs…in a really indirect way of course. A miracle, you may say!

  286. Profile photo of
    April 9, 2010 at 10:33 pm —

    ya and you probably got herpes bitch so stop tryin to front that you are better than other people

  287. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 10:40 pm —

    The skepchicks have pissed off Twilight fans AND Juggalos, oh my.

  288. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 10:42 pm —

    @smhink: See, you really, really aren’t helping the case against Juggalos. Really.

  289. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 9, 2010 at 10:47 pm —

    @smhink: Wow, you’re right WE just hate on all we see.

    Oh, and where does in say that this is a science blog, ’cause I must have missed that.

  290. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 9, 2010 at 10:53 pm —

    Maybe you could continue the ICP STD Miracle and figure out (not scientifically of course, you are above that) how to hand off your herpes via comment threads! Just like that ass-clown from my high school, only in a more better than bitches on the interwebs and shit kinda way. Ok, ok, sorry, Skept-artist, you should have logged out!

  291. Profile photo of marilove
    April 9, 2010 at 11:03 pm —

    @Skept-artist: Mrs. Skept-artist, you are awesome. I’m glad he did not sign out.

  292. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 9, 2010 at 11:05 pm —

    Mrs. *blush*

  293. Profile photo of MarianLibrarian
    April 9, 2010 at 11:09 pm —

    @smhink:

    Actually, if you had taken time to read the blog, you would have seen that it is about discussing things in popular culture, education, and politics that are important to skeptics, such as bands and celebrities who preach anti-scientific messages (among many other things). But please don’t get embarrassed by your error and stop posting here, because you have inspired me to actually join in on the discussion where I was only lurking before, and you are incredibly entertaining.

  294. Profile photo of Advocatus Diaboli
    April 9, 2010 at 11:16 pm —

    @smhink:

    I don’t know anything about Insane Clown Posse or Juggalos or Juggalettes (shouldn’t it be Juggalas?) so I haven’t commented so far. But after your little rant there I just had to butt in to say that you should scroll to the top of the page. Read the name of the website. Go on, I’ll wait.

    It’s called Skepchick. Geddit? Like ‘skeptic’ with chick in there. Now, certainly not all of the commenters and posters at Skepchick are women, but it is rather bizarre that you would say “you guys need a girlfriend.”

    Now read the ‘About’ section. See what this website is about. Now maybe take a look at some of the other posts. You seem to be under the impression that we are a site dedicated to laughing at Insane Clown Posse. Not true at all, there are plenty of other things that are mocked at skepchick, which is the main reason I come here. If you say something stupid relating to skeptic issues, we will mock you. To quote an anonymous poster at FSTDT (another site I frequent due to the mirth) “If people don’t want their beliefs laughed at, they shouldn’t have such funny beliefs.”

    You are also under the impression that we are wasting our time by commenting on this and that it achieves nothing. Well, the 10 minutes of laughter I got out of reading the comments was well worth it.

    Also, because I can’t help it: there is no such thing as being ‘right brained’ or ‘left brained’, all rainbows are optical illusions and telling someone “ya and you probably got herpes bitch” is not an appropriate comeback.

  295. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 9, 2010 at 11:30 pm —

    This is actual Skept-artist. This is why it’s nice to have an iPhone :) Honey, you should register! @Marilove: Thanks for backin’ muh lady up. She rules hard!

  296. Profile photo of OneHandClapping
    April 9, 2010 at 11:30 pm —

    I am the only one that shot coffee out of my nose when I read @smhink: and @smhink: when (s)he referred to “analizing?” I mean that is just GOLD. I srsly <3 smhink for the PHAIL (s)he brought to the thread. At least CJ could could form complete sentences and did a decent job articulating his thoughts.

    You've been PWND by your own PHAIL, smhink. Analize that.

    Wurd.

  297. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 9, 2010 at 11:55 pm —

    @smhink:John and Paul said it best.

    He’s a real bozo man,
    Sitting in his bozo Land,
    Making all his bozo plans
    for nobody… .

    To be proud of ignorance and hatred is the hallmark of the uncivilized. And understand that as it stands ICP will never be accepted as a reasonable or rational association or philosophy. It really is choosing to be ignorant and and a social bully. Because if anything has become clear or evident it’s that when faced with honest criticism ICP folk react with threats and invitations to meet face to face and see how tough we really are. The ICP way is a useless and self absorbed way to view the world and interact with other people. In the end I truly feel sorry for those duped into this crap thinking and disgusted that there are real victims of this culture of hate and violence.

  298. Profile photo of K.Savage
    April 10, 2010 at 12:43 am —

    Hey there, this is Skept-Artist’s wife. I can’t believe that I decided to finally join in on this glorious site (I actually look at it more frequently than any others) because of real, actual clowns that are not funny and/or scary.

  299. Profile photo of Chelsea
    April 10, 2010 at 3:27 am —

    I would really like to thank everyone involved in this post. Especially @cjdeak @smhink. Mr. Juggalo, Ms. Juggalette, you’ve made my already full day of disliking ICP exponentially busier and about 5 metric tonnes more entertaining.

    I’m glad for you both that your love of ICP didn’t get your clown asses whooped in high school. I remember that in my high school, the Hatchetheads were nowhere near the top of the food chain, unlike what you eluded to in your “imma send you back to high school, bitchezzzzzz”-type attacks.

    I hope the same goes for your future clown children. That is, if they make it further than the Juggalette lady who smoked weed, ate Xanax and drank through her pregnancy and then asked a radio station for t-shirts when her kid didn’t live longer than 13 minutes. Class act, that one. And whether you like it or not, that’s the public view of you and your ilk.

    Perhaps wiping off the grease paint and learning to use proper English when speaking to educated people will better your chances of ever growing out of the title that will one day doom you (oh, and it will).

    Assclowns.

  300. Profile photo of Rebecca Watson
    April 10, 2010 at 4:48 am —

    I love that @smhink thinks anything she can’t make herself is a miracle. So let’s see, in addition to mountains and stars that probably includes television sets, bicycles, duck l’orange, and beer.

    It does not, then, include babies. Babies are not miracles because she can make one.

  301. Profile photo of Elyse
    April 10, 2010 at 5:00 am —

    @Rebecca Watson:

    But can she make a baby that looks just like Shaggy? NO! That’s a miracle!

  302. Profile photo of MarianLibrarian
    April 10, 2010 at 5:17 am —

    @Elyse:

    She can too make a baby that looks like Shaggy. She just needs to combine a baby and some jars of grease paint.

  303. Profile photo of DataJack
    April 10, 2010 at 5:26 am —

    @jthewonderllama: COTW!! This thread is gonna make me laugh to death!

  304. Profile photo of DataJack
    April 10, 2010 at 5:41 am —

    @Rebel 16: COTW. We would all win.

  305. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 10, 2010 at 8:08 am —

    “i dont think im tough, nor am i trying to be. but at least i can say im a chill down to earth person that is open minded and understanding and i dont think im the center of the universe. and i dont use HATE mongering …”

    Well that seems like a reasonable, thoughtful life philosoph-

    “ya and you probably got herpes bitch”
    “hey look now your ego got so big that your brain shrank to the size of your penis!
    which im guessing isnt very big…hahahaha”
    “none of you little pussy ass geeks would say this shit to a juggalo in person, haha itll give ya flashbacks to highschool“

    I guess self-awareness isn’t a core tenet of juggalettism. Or irony.

    “science has failed our mother earth.”

    Quoth orac: the stupid, it burns!

  306. Profile photo of Andrew Nixon
    April 10, 2010 at 8:34 am —

    @MarianLibrarian: Or she could sleep with Shaggy.

  307. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 10, 2010 at 8:42 am —

    “science has failed our mother earth.”

    nope, you failed science.

  308. Profile photo of porlob
    April 10, 2010 at 11:40 am —

    @mikerattlesnake: Damnit! I was just about to make pretty much that exact same post, but you have stolen my thunder. Curses upon you.

  309. Profile photo of
    April 10, 2010 at 12:29 pm —

    there is a difference in being a skeptic, and just all around hating people. you guys are FULL of hate. it’s funny. and i didn’t say anything rude to anyone that didn’t say something rude and condesending to me. hate will destroy you, if it hasnt already. i would love to sleep with Shaggy, but damn andrew it just sounds like you want to even worse…too bad Shaggy isnt a fag like you. And the worst part about it, you guys say im self absorbed…hahahahaha…at least i dont think im god like half the people posting on this page. YES I AM ALL IMPORTANT ALL POWERFUL scientist thats why i spend my days writing blogs talking shit about people. hahaha..this is the last thing i will post on here….y’all are fuckin retarded. peace out, and i hope you all die a slow painful death…or maybe a quick one when a juggalo puts a fuckin axe through your scientific little forhead.

  310. Profile photo of
    April 10, 2010 at 12:32 pm —

    FUCK YOU REBECCA, you ugly fat fuckin cunt. go eat a dick. and choke and die on it…you retarded fuckin dyke bitch.

  311. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 10, 2010 at 12:43 pm —

    @smhink: Wow. That’s amazing. At this point it is probably pointless to comment, because the level of your discourse has sunk so low. But as you seem to have failed to read @Advocatus Diaboli: ‘s comment and you directly insulted my wife: ya and you probably got herpes bitch… See, @K.Savage wasn’t even taking about you, but about someone she knew way back in High School who she marked as a representation of what she saw in ICP fans. And you have only reinforced that view for all of us here. You prove our point.
    By the way, she doesn’t have herpes. I checked. Also, you can only get herpes for skin-to-skin contact. The sprinkled pubes wouldn’t do it, which is why she used crabs in her example. Great big science fail pointed out to you courtesy of a non-scientist.

  312. Profile photo of mikerattlesnake
    April 10, 2010 at 1:01 pm —

    that was a pretty fantastic flameout. Bravo.

  313. Profile photo of Andrew Nixon
    April 10, 2010 at 1:02 pm —

    @smhink: We’re full of hate, and yet in one barely coherent paragraph you manage to display signs of homophobia, threaten us with extreme violence and then in a subsequent comment (made after you said you weren’t going to make any more) manage to pack nine insults into just three sentences.

    And why is it that people still think that calling someone “fag” is an insult. Never mind that I see that word first to mean cigarette, being considered to be gay isn’t really an insult any more, not that I’d expect someone like you to even begin to understand that. At least gay people tend to have style and (sometimes) have good taste in music, unlike you.

    What did you hope to achieve by posting here? Did you hope to change our minds about the “Insane Clown Posse” and their fans? Because I now think even less of them than I already did.

  314. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 10, 2010 at 1:09 pm —

    @Elyse:
    But can she make a baby that looks just like Shaggy? NO! That’s a miracle!
    Miracle, tragedy, circus sideshow, whatever.

  315. Profile photo of Rebecca Watson
    April 10, 2010 at 1:12 pm —

    @smhink: “hate will destroy you….this is the last thing i will post on here.”

    EXACTLY THREE MINUTES LATER

    “FUCK YOU REBECCA, you ugly fat fuckin cunt. go eat a dick. and choke and die on it…you retarded fuckin dyke bitch.”

    I swear to god, this has got to be one of the other skepchicks fucking with us. There is no way that there’s a person on the planet who is this clueless and yet still remembers to breathe.

    *slow clap*

  316. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 10, 2010 at 1:17 pm —

    @Andrew Nixon:
    And why is it that people still think that calling someone “fag” is an insult.
    You know, I was just going say that I have an eight-year-old who would consider a “fag” insult below her. Geesh.

  317. Profile photo of marilove
    April 10, 2010 at 1:22 pm —

    @Rebecca Watson: i was starting to consider that it was possibly a poe, but at the same time: i’ve been on the internet a looong time. people like this do exist. which is the depressing part.

    also, that last one crossed the line of possible-parody to some serious hate, imo. even if it is a poe, it’s still pretty gross.

  318. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 10, 2010 at 1:39 pm —

    @smhink:

    Wow, let’s deconstruct this one, shall we?

    FUCK YOU (the last resort of a frustrated imbecile)

    REBECCA, (first, perhaps only, correct fact)

    you ugly (opinion most do not share)

    fat (quantifiable sure, buy NO)

    fuckin (we can’t know that but we could ask Sid)

    cunt. (opinion again, but anatomically correct)

    go eat a dick. (a delicacy in many cultures, but is this an insult?)

    and choke (if you fail to chew, sure)

    and die on it… (do you want her to CHOKE on it or DIE on it because your poor sentance structure has me confused)

    you retarded (Rebecca seems to be well above average intelligence and the historical definition of retardation (a definition no longer used) is and IQ below 70. Another fail I’m afraid)

    fuckin (again, Sid? You want to field this one?)

    dyke (again, is this an insult? Oh, and Sid could answer this one too)

    bitch. (Now I have to say, not knowing Ms. Watson personally, that I have seen and heard her be occasionally condescending, snarky, angry, thrifty, brave, clean and irreverent, and occasionally bitchy but ONLY when appropriate.)

    To quote Jeff Goldlum from Jurassic Park
    “That’s a big pile of shit.”

  319. Profile photo of Tim3P0
    April 10, 2010 at 3:10 pm —

    While very late to this awesome thread, I must say that this may well the most hilarious thing i have ever heard. I was working in an Indie record store when the ICP record came out with “Thy Unveiling”, and I remember just laughing my ass off when it gets to the end of the song and starts blabbing on about “Truth is we follow God…we’ve always been behind him…”.

    I had the unfortunate/awkward moment once where I just happened to run into the Shaggy guy in a mall once, and he was just as big a painted-up dick-face as he comes off on the songs.

    On another note, I REALLY want to see a spoof video made with the dialogue Rebecca wrote in this post. Brilliant work! :-)

  320. Profile photo of MarianLibrarian
    April 10, 2010 at 3:13 pm —

    @Andrew Nixon:

    Aha! Now I know why he’s so intent on claiming that a baby who looks like him is due to a miracle, and not genetics. Fuckin’ lyin’ scientists, with their DNA tests! (You know, just in case someone shows up with a non-greasepaint baby who looks like Shaggy.)

    Also, @smhink: you have worked wonders as an ambassador for juggalos and juggalettes (which, BTW, literally means someone who is less than a juggalo. That’s why most people don’t use the -ess, -ette, or -enne suffixes anymore). You’ve convinced us all that we were wrong, and ICP fans are actually brilliant, sensitive, misunderstood people who only want acceptance and brotherhood….

    No, I’m just kidding. You’ve just reinforced the “pathetic moron” meme. Thanks, it was fun!

  321. Profile photo of Shadow Of A Doubt
    April 10, 2010 at 7:47 pm —

    I guess s/he/they couldn’t help themselves since they’re obviously attracted to stupid like, ooh i dunno…, someone please help me come up with a suitable end to the simile.

    (And how in the world are Gorillaz like these inane clown rappers?)

  322. Profile photo of Tim3P0
    April 10, 2010 at 8:44 pm —

    @smhink: Not to burst your bubble, but in the real world it is pronounced “fucking” because there is the letter “g” at the end of it. While I know that in the ICP universe, correct spelling is not exactly of the highest priority, nor a requirement, I also know that your anger towards people, bitches (oops, sorry, you don’t know that word. I meant Bitchezz), and dykes is frowned upon by your Juggalo trailer-park evangelical heroes Shaggy Dope and Violent K…or whatever.

    Like their god-loving messages would say, “WWJD” or to spell it in a way you might understand, “Whut Wood Juggallos Doo”. Might be worth thinking about the next time you leave Wal-Mart with your Funyuns and your Faygo while listening to evangelical rap.

  323. Profile photo of mrmisconception
    April 10, 2010 at 8:52 pm —

    @Shadow Of A Doubt:
    I guess s/he/they couldn’t help themselves since they’re obviously attracted to stupid like, ooh i dunno…, someone please help me come up with a suitable end to the simile.

    I was going to say something like motherfuckin’ magnets, but I don’t know how that shit works.

  324. Profile photo of rasmur
    April 11, 2010 at 5:09 pm —

    This video was a highly underwhelming piece of antiscience. Love mystery, hate scientists, yeah yeah. And I’m not a bit surprised that they are evangelical. The only troubling thing is how many people are listening to them. Oh well. It takes all kinds. And hopefully their kind is a small minority.

  325. Profile photo of rasmur
    April 11, 2010 at 5:24 pm —

    @delphi_ote: COTW

  326. Profile photo of Zapski
    April 12, 2010 at 9:45 am —

    :: Fade to black. Roll credits. ::

    Some characters appearing in this work are possibly fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental. All ridicule is deserved.

    This has been a Skepchick Internationalâ„¢ Production.

    MMX

  327. Profile photo of waltdakind
    April 12, 2010 at 10:47 am —

    Everyone forgive me for inflicting this on you, but it’s been in my head since I waded through this whole thread last night:

    Just a juggalo, everywhere I go
    people know the part I’m playing.
    Paid for every dance,
    selling each romance
    every night some heart betraying.
    There will come a day;
    youth will pass away.
    Then what will they say about me?
    When the end comes I know,
    they’ll say, “Just a juggalo.”
    as life goes on without me

  328. Profile photo of juggaloripley
    April 13, 2010 at 3:50 am —

    Hello, my name is Buddy, but i go by smalls. I would like to start off by saying, i found the script you wrote is quite amusing. I laughed pretty hard and appreciate it. You mixed the names up, but that really doesn’t bother me. Secondly, I have been a juggalo for 7 years, and feel obligated to put in my two cents.

    @James Fox, You sir, are obiously ignorant as fuck. I’m 18 and i’ve never viewed being a juggalo as being a gang member. Being a juggalo isn’t going to destroy someones life, living as closed minded as you will.

    @smhink, Just shut up. If you can’t leave educated posts, that don’t bitch about people hating, and than you going and talking a load of shit, DON’T POST AND MAKE THE JUGGALOS LOOK WORSE THAN WE ALREADY DO!

    @Skept-Artist’s wife, What you’re saying basically is “I don’t like ICP, because of some wierdo fuck who put pubes on my desk?” ICP had nothing to do with that. Grow the fuck up.

    Anyone that wants to take a few shots at me, feel free!

  329. Profile photo of exarch
    April 13, 2010 at 9:03 am —

    @juggaloripley:
    What you’re saying basically is “I don’t like ICP, because of some wierdo fuck who put pubes on my desk?” ICP had nothing to do with that. Grow the fuck up.

    All the Juggalos on this thread keep saying “look, we’re not as bad as you think”. Stopping just short of the “they’re not real juggalos if they act like that”.

    Well, I wonder where all the nice juggalos hang out, because it seems pretty much everyone here has only met the ones who are assholes. You can’t blame us for assuming that if 5 juggalos are assholes, there’s a pretty good chance #6 will be an asshole too.

    What’s more, every juggalo on this thread has been a loudly misbehaving, insulting thug. If you in any way talk in real life as you did on this thread, then I can assure you that most of the non-juggalo people you meet in everyday life will probably consider you to be an asshole too, no matter how “nice” you consider yourself to be.

    If the first words out of your mouth are “you’re an ignorant fuck” or “grow the fuck up”, then don’t expect people to keep the gloves on when talking back to you. You brought that treatment onto yourself by being an asshole juggalo just like all the other juggalos people have met in the past.

    You just reinforced the stereotype you’re trying to shake off. Well done …

  330. Profile photo of killyosaur
    April 13, 2010 at 9:41 am —

    @exarch: Well, actually, @CJDeak seemed to be rather rational and even headed throughout in direct contradiction to the other three Juggalos. That is assuming that CJDeak really is not MMFCLFriend as Rebecca pointed out. Because if he is, then yeah, you are correct, sir.

    To All, please stop making this thread so damn entertaining, I have work to do and it is distracting. That is all. (To the juggalos in the audience, that was intended as a joke, but considering your level of discourse, I felt I need to explain it because I don’t want to be misinterpreted as not taking personal responsibility for not just shutting down the page and getting back to what I am supposed to be doing.)

  331. Profile photo of marilove
    April 13, 2010 at 10:53 am —

    @juggaloripley: Oh. You also sent me a facebook message.

    Juggalos are creepy.

    And gross.

  332. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 13, 2010 at 11:14 am —

    @Zapski: @killyosaur: @marilove: You guys wanna go grab a burger or something? I’m hungry.

  333. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 13, 2010 at 11:21 am —

    I know a great place. I think it’s called “No True Juggalo”. Great pub food and half-price drinks after 4 pm.

  334. Profile photo of James Fox
    April 13, 2010 at 11:39 am —

    @juggaloripley: Your personal experience does not make me ignorant. It only demonstrates that you can not see past your nose. Then again perhaps I am old and ignorant. Isn’t it rich? Isn’t it queer, losing my timing this late in my career? And where are the clowns? There ought to be clowns. Well, maybe next year.

  335. Profile photo of marilove
    April 13, 2010 at 12:53 pm —

    @Skept-artist: But … Faygo? ewwwwwwww.

  336. Profile photo of Zapski
    April 13, 2010 at 3:36 pm —

    @Skept-artist: Sure. Just gotta stop by the ATM first.

  337. Profile photo of MarianLibrarian
    April 13, 2010 at 5:49 pm —

    Gee, I was so happy someone brought this thread back to life. Where’d he go?

    And what is today, international cognitive dissonance day? I’ve seen about three people on different threads on different sites say something like “I’m nice! You misunderstood me/my kind! I never insulted anybody, and that other persons making us look bad, and fuck you if you don’t agree!”

  338. Profile photo of marilove
    April 13, 2010 at 6:27 pm —

    @MarianLibrarian: And you know what is kind of hilarious? I don’t think anyone cares if they are nice. This whole, “But I’m nice! I swear!” thing really amuses me.

    I mean, really, I’m not always nice. You can be a good person and not always be nice.

    And I think if you have to insist that you are, indeed, a nice person … you probably aren’t a very good person, otherwise you wouldn’t feel the need to insist, over and over, how awesome of a person you are.

    I’m confident enough in myself to admit that while I am not always nice, I am still always a good person.

  339. Profile photo of MarianLibrarian
    April 13, 2010 at 6:43 pm —

    @marilove:

    I suspect it’s a response to the whole gang thing. I don’t know if you’ve ever had gang awareness training, but I’ve had to go through it a few times at work (in case the gangs come into the library), and as a correctional officer my mother has to do it every year. Juggalos are considered a gang, and the police who do the programs spend twenty minutes telling us all how M13 raped and murdered hundreds of women in Mexico and slaughtered an entire family for refusing to be drug mules and have completely taken over this or that prison, and then they tell us that juggalos are the worst gang because they spray graffiti everywhere and will beat up anyone who looks at them funny.

    It’s kind of like those old movies that taught people that smoking pot will make you cook your baby in the oven. The reflexive action is to then want to prove/believe that pot is always completely harmless and always beneficial and magical no matter what.

    So some juggalos are desperate to prove that they’re not the worst gang in North America, so they have to claim they are “nice” and want nothing but brotherhood and acceptance.

  340. Profile photo of K.Savage
    April 13, 2010 at 8:17 pm —

    @juggaloripley: This whole thread has also reinforced my opinion. *Frowns* That poor desk…

  341. Profile photo of killyosaur
    April 13, 2010 at 8:35 pm —

    @marilove: Hey, just because it is the preferred drink of a couple of halfwits in clown makeup doesn’t mean it’s bad. Hell, I’ve got a cousin whose favorite drink happens to be Faygo Red Pop.

    @Skept-artist:
    Sounds like a plan, I could always go for a good pub burger.

  342. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 14, 2010 at 9:11 am —

    @marilove: Half-price al-key-hall, I meant :)

    @Zapski: Separate checks?

    @killyosaur: There’s nothing like being surprised by a bar that has a great burger.

    I really wish we could all just teleport to a pub together after work and continue the discussions we have on here.
    But in lieu of that, I suppose we’ll just have to keep commenting on this thread til it gets over 400. Who’s with me?!

  343. Profile photo of marilove
    April 14, 2010 at 10:30 am —

    @Skept-artist: Yeah!

    Too bad the Juggatrolls aren’t around anymore.

  344. Profile photo of Brian G
    April 18, 2010 at 8:17 am —

    OMFG! Did anyone else see this from SNL last night? They were reading our MINDS!

    http://tinyurl.com/y6pvnct

  345. Profile photo of ObSciGuy
    April 18, 2010 at 2:21 pm —

    @Skept-artist: awesome! Thanks for the link :)

  346. Profile photo of Harradine
    April 18, 2010 at 6:31 pm —

    ICP. Fish happy to swim in a barrel.

  347. Profile photo of Harradine
    April 18, 2010 at 6:40 pm —

    But seriously, the ICP seem to be young (teenage) folk from possible greatly disadvantaged backgrounds and possibly no reason to appreciate the value of education.

    This thread was so much fun. But, it did end up being (to use a London phrase) chav bating.

    People who should know better deserve unreserved scorn. People who possible have no way of knowing better- kid gloves? Otherwise, we accept that there really is an intellectual underclass and just beat them shitless with effortless argument that they can never appreciate as anything but ‘you think you’re better than me’.

  348. Profile photo of Harradine
    April 18, 2010 at 7:00 pm —

    Right now I am asking myself, what do these clowns give these people that sensible thought and rational ideas do not?

    It might be that the Juggalos are totaly excluded from access to more rational ways of thinking. Either because of an innate inability to grasp such ideas, a lack of access to education, or whatever other reason.

    Should intelligent people engage their ideas only to other intelligent people? Or should they be able to include real idiots too? I mean stupid people. Not retarded, just thick as pig shit. If so, then how to do this? A much greater challenge than engaging with only the bright. That’s easy.

    If exclude stupid people, then risk the satus of elitism, and by defintion reduce one’s ideas to a minority.

    The fate of stupid, disadvantaged people keeps me awake at night wondering ‘surely as someone educated and bright, the onus is on me’.

  349. Profile photo of PrimevilKneivel
    April 21, 2010 at 6:24 pm —

    Appropriate that the video has them in, not only an entirely fake world, but one so crappy and unimaginative.

  350. Profile photo of deadmike
    May 14, 2010 at 5:55 pm —

    Here is some juggalo humor you might enjoy.
    warning, links to a juggalo with no clothes…
    The caption is funny anyhow.

  351. Profile photo of Loona
    May 15, 2010 at 7:57 pm —

    Wow, I feel incredibly used at this moment in time.
    I come into this post, just catching up on reading, after several months of skepchick-withdrawal. I’ve never heard of ICP before and so reading Rebecca’s introduction, I take her word literally (which is rather ludicrous in it’s own right). Simultaneously, I’m watching/listening to the video. My initial reaction was “what the fuck, why is Rebecca praising this?” but somehow, with my faulty sarcasm detector in head, I managed to convince myself that the video before me was satirical, and that eventually the ICP would reveal how bloody ridiculous the ‘miracles’ they were spewing really are. The cheesy tune, background vocals, video effects, etc–it had to be a joke. But then I finished the video and realized this entire blog post went way over my head…and at that point in my life I felt incredibly empty…and incredibly used…and maybe a little bit of my faith in humanity was lost (although there wasn’t much of that left to begin with).

    So basically…thanks for introducing me to this shit.

  352. Profile photo of Cabbageman
    May 22, 2011 at 12:56 am —

    It took me maybe… two hours and three re-plays of this song to determine that it was in no way a sarcastic criticism of the concept of “miracles”.

    So depressing that it isn’t because that would be a terrific bit of satire.

  353. Profile photo of anarchist
    July 4, 2011 at 9:52 pm —

    I read an actual interview that was linked to Pharyngula or Dispatches From the Culture Wars. No joke, it really wasn’t all that different from this skit. In fact, I actually thought you were taking the real interview and just rebutting it. They’re dumber than turds, ICP. Shitty, shitty turds.

  354. Profile photo of
    July 13, 2011 at 12:27 pm —

    Aren’t you worried that repeated use of profanity makes some people uncomfortable?

  355. Profile photo of Calloway McSmithing
    May 2, 2013 at 12:13 pm —

    I realize that I am a few years too late to this party, but I wanted to point out one serious inaccuracy in this work. I feel it’s very unlikely that Violent J does not pronounce ‘refrigerator’ as ‘fidgerater’.

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