Skepticism

AI: Symbolism and Support

Happy Friday ya’ll!  Today’s Afternoon Inquisition was inspired by Skepchick poster Heidi Anderson, who twittered about her confusion about the green overlay on Twitter avatars to support Iran.

OK, I know I am going to hell for asking this – but exactly how is adding a green overlay going to help Iran?? Waiting for the yelling . . .

So no matter what you think about the current issues in Iran, I think this brings up an interesting question.
 
Do you use symbols, banners, bumper stickers or other paraphanelia to show your support for a cause or a group? What do you think the purpose is and is it effective?

 

The Afternoon Inquisition (or AI) is a question posed to you, the Skepchick community. Look for it to appear daily at 3pm ET.

Masala Skeptic

Maria Walters (a.k.a. Masala Skeptic) has spent a lot of time in ‘furrin parts,’ including Hong Kong, Trinidad, and Pittsburgh. Although her passport is from India, she’s spent most of her adult life in the United States. She currently lives in Atlanta and has an unhealthy affection for science fiction, Neil Gaiman and all things Muppet.

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53 Comments

  1. I think the purpose is to allow us to show support without having to do anything. It can relate information to people that they are not alone but still I don’t know that a green overlay on face book does anything for democracy in Iran. It would be really cool if I am wrong.

  2. I have a “Leave No Child Behind: Teach Evolution” bumper sticker. I bought primarily to annoy the people around me who were not even slightly grounded in reality. It’s been reasonably effective in this respect.

  3. On my car:
    A Gadsden flag (because it’s the Navy’s Jack flag and it makes me an evil terrorist, according to the DHS)

    The Gadsden flag was put on there as an FU to the DHS and the rest of the weenies that came up with the list of symbols/memberships that they used to help identify terrorists. I don’t care if it’s effective or not.

  4. I have a flying spaghetti monster bumper sticker. I think most symbols like that are mainly useful in motivating and raising the spirits of people who share the same beliefs, or annoying your critics. Who wouldn’t think it was cool to see a big picture of James Randi’s head on the side of a car?

    I do not think someone wearing a “Save Darfur” shirt is saving Darfur or having a green overlay is helping democracy in Iran, but maybe it’ll raise consciousness about it.

  5. I take solace in the fact that by my wearing a shirt/having a bumper sticker/a kick ass gravatar that supports the cause I care about raises awareness about whatever it is. People see it and can ask, “Hey, what the hell? You actually LOVE the LRA?!” These symbols give you an opportunity to share your knowledge on whatever subject to someone who’ll probably listen to what you have to say, and chances are, they’ll learn something. Also, wearing my support is probably my only way to “be on the frontline,” if you will. Some of us never get the chance to be in the middle of change, but I think as long as we’re doing what we can, every little bit helps.

  6. i have masalaskeptic business cards in my wallet right along with my “Get Out Of Hell Free” Minnesota Atheists cards (one of which was left inside the hotel bible in Chicago by two brilliant skepchicks).

    Aside from the FSM or Darwin Fish or the Dinosaur having sex with the Jesus-Fish (as they are all things that make me smile), I could do without the whole “ribbon for god or troops” crap. Honestly, if god existed would she/he/whatever really get bent out of shape if I didn’t have a cheap 9 dollar magnet boasting some insecure holier-than-thou comment? I don’t think so Mr. Imaginary God-Person.

    Okay, now I need a buzzed aldrin to cool down from this, and you can have a buzzed aldrin too if you attend 2009 skepchickcon in MPLS over 4th of July Weekend. Just click the banner at the top of this site for all related paraphernalia and support. See what I just did there? ;)

  7. On the extremely rare occasions that I have been fortunate enough to see an atheist sticker on someone’s car, it makes me so happy! Just having a simply reminder than I am not alone is great.

  8. That was exactly my first reaction to the green overlay.

    As far as my participation/membership in a group or cause, no, I do not typically display my affiliation. No reason other than I’m rather shy and have a personality that’s not always fit for public consumption. I prefer to work “behind the scenes” unseen and unheard to avoid the attention.

  9. I think the green Twitter overlay is cute, but probably ineffective.

    I do have a number of tshirts with rather provocative pro-biking or anti-car illustrations on them. (This one, Petrolcide, gets the most remarks: http://www.demockratees.com/petrolcide.html) These shirts have led to more than a few extended conversations with strangers about alternative transportation. I think this has some small chance of influencing an opinion. What gets the most attention, however, is when I load up a week’s worth of groceries on my bike. This really weirds people out for some reason. “You bought six bags of groceries.. without a car?!?”

    I have a number of pro-skeptic Ts as well, but so far these haven’t incite comments other than an occasional chuckle by a fellow skeptic.

  10. @Tim3P0:

    Oh, the ribbons. Bleagh. I did see one that made me chuckle: the “ribbon” was actually a brown belt and the caption was “Support our pants.”

    Although the phrase “raising awareness” makes me cringe, there’s a lot to that idea. People have got to learn about this stuff!

  11. I don’t have any bumper stickers, window stickers, buttons, ribbons, flags or tattoos. I’m also not terribly fond of overt logos on products I own. Two notable exceptions are my xkcd t-shirt and my Converse One-Stars. You have to believe in something, right?

  12. They are motivational, they bring people together (“Hey! Flying spaghetti monster! COOL!”), they can start conversation (“What does that green stuff mean?!”) and thus spread awareness.

    So I don’t think they are useless–spreading awareness is VERY important. Also, feeling united in a cause is very important.

    I have an American flag sticker on the back of my car but that’s it. And I’m not even particularly patriotic, it was free and I didn’t know where else to put it lol.

    I do have some stickers at home (Obama and such) and I’ve placed them around my desk or on my fridge or whatever (generally with tape so as not to ruin the sticker or the fridge), but mostly I like putting that kind of memorabilia around anyway, along with pictures and concert tix.

  13. I think that the purpose of bumper stickers, pins, etc. is to get people thinking about an issue, and get them to hear your side of it. You can’t read a bumper sticker and not think about the issue at hand, even if you hate the viewpoint being proposed. The more people are thinking about an issue, the more likely it is that someone’s gonna do something about it.

    I don’t use things like that though, because they do by necessity simplify the issue or point of view beyond what I’m comfortable displaying.

  14. I used to want one of those Darwin fish for the back of my car. Then I noticed a huge bevvy of “Support the troops”, “Farmers Feed Cities!”, “Remember [bill X] When you vote” and similar type ornaments that say very little about important topics. Yeah, you support the troops. Good for you. You know who else does? EVERYBODY! And what does “support” even mean? Do you want them to come home early and leave the mission unfinished? Or do you want them to stay as long as it takes to get the job done? Do you just want them to live as long as possible? All these things can fall under the rubric of “support”, but can also be in conflict.

    Then I came to the conclusion that I find it obnoxious when I see jesus fish on cars, so why should I do the same for my causes? My political/intellectual opinions are a little more complex than a decal on the back of my Pontiac.

    When I see political/intellectual/religious opinions on the back of a car, I think to myself, “thank you, back of complete stranger’s car. You succeeded in saying nothing at all while at the same time pretend like you’re making a difference and a statement”. This is not a popular opinion to hold, I admit, and I’ve upset some people in the past.

    But come on: unless it’s a really really fringe message from the general public, why have the need to show off your ideology like a badge?

  15. @Some Canadian Skeptic:

    Yeah, you support the troops. Good for you. You know who else does? EVERYBODY!

    Actually, you’d be surprised, but not everyone does. There are certain people who are 100% against wars of any kind and certainly do not support the troops.

    And what does “support” even mean?

    From what I understand, “Support the troops” basically means: You support them as human beings, and you support them doing their job as safely as possible, and you hope they come home safely. You support their decision to enter into the service. You *don’t* necessarily support the war.

    But come on: unless it’s a really really fringe message from the general public, why have the need to show off your ideology like a badge?

    Why not? It can bring on discussion. It can unite people (I feel warm and fuzzy when I see proud atheists with stickers on their car, for isntance, becuase I’m too much of a wuss to put one on my car). It can bring on awareness.

    As an active LGBT supporter, activist, and volunteer, I STRONGLY believe that it is important to be loud and to be proud of your message. Especially when you’re trying to fight for equality. Milk had it right when he said to come out–the more people see that normal folk support a certain cause, other people will feel it is okay to come out in support of that cause.

    Does that make sense?

  16. Oh, and it can also just be about personal style, or how someone wants to present themselves, just as much as loud clothing or a bright yellow car can be. It’s about individualism as much as it is about unity.

    I myself am not a flashy person and that’s why I tend to go light on the stickers and why I prefer a silver car to red or yellow. Some people like to be loud and proud, and I am a-ok with that. They tend to be the fun ones, anyway. Lots of rainbow flags on their car? I wanna be their bff.

  17. I turned my icon green. I have (or will have once I get it put on) a Darwin fish on my car and my license plate reads SKEPCHK. I’m with @marilove on this one – I think it starts conversations and makes people aware of the situation or cause.

    I think the world is very fragmented and we all get information in so many different ways that it’s really hard to have any shared experiences. When Neil Armstrong landed on the moon, EVERYONE was watching. That’s not true today and it never will be again.

    Joint efforts like the green overlay make you part of a larger group and also do show folks in Iran that they are not alone and that they are being heard in the vast noise that is the Internets…

  18. @marilove:

    Some people like to be loud and proud, and I am a-ok with that. They tend to be the fun ones, anyway

    By what standard are you judging a “fun one”. I generally view adornments on my car the same way as my clothing: I don’t like words/logos of any kind to put forth who I am. I don’t need to, but if others do so for individualistic reasons, that’s fine (but quite different from activist reasons, which I take to be hollow). Am I “unfun” because of this? I spent my 30th birthday party not getting drunk, and dancing to loud music, but in deep conversation with good friends, and we went out side with the telescope and talked some more. This is extremely fun to me. I prefer to express my individuality with words, not symbols (which can be empty as many times as they can be full of meaning).

    I’m also of the opinion that if you need to be loud to get your message across, then you might need to clarify the message a bit more articulately than a catchy slogan, bright colors and rhythmic rhyming. It’s one thing to be unafraid and proud, its another to condense it for marketability’s sake.

    I really can’t write more than this right now, though I would like to. Going to hit the road, like Jack Kerosene…or something……

  19. @Some Canadian Skeptic: I was being a bit facetious. :) Someone with a huge array of rainbow propaganda on their car would likely be fun, though!

    But, no, it certainly does NOT mean you aren’t fun! I am not a loud person, myself. I don’t even like jewelry. I might wear fun polka dot socks sometimes, but that’s about it. :P

    You sound fun and should visit Phoenix and drink with me.

    Anyway, I’ve just known a lot of “flashy” people. The LGBT community is known for it, really. Most are genuine.

    I dunno, it’s just stickers and magnets and stuff. Some people like to have ’em, some don’t.

  20. @marilove: Oh you didn’t get drunk! haha. Sorry. I can’t read.

    I bought wine, I must be anxious to open it or something.

    To be honest, I’m not a big partier myself, even when I DO drink. I never did get staying up all night only to feel like ass the next day. :x

    Drunk Wii Bowling, however, is awesome. This is what my 28th birthday will likely consist of. Beer and Wii.

  21. I don’t like advertisements on my car or on my person. I try to avoid obvious labels on clothing, but it’s kind of hopeless.

    I’ve never had a bumper sticker on my car. …until now. If people want to know who I voted for, they can ask. And I may or may not tell them. Now I have a very small yellow sticker with three small bats. Cavers know what it means. And they know I’m one of them.

    For a while after 9/11, I flew a flag from my car. (But who wouldn’t?)

  22. Oh, and when Tom Yarbrough, the founder of the Bicycle Fun Club died of cancer, I wore a black ribbon on bike rides — until there were a fair number of people who didn’t even know what it meant.

  23. @marilove:

    And I feel as though I was a bit harsh….I was rushed, and knee-jerked into it (my knees are also jerks).
    & @Masala Skeptic:
    I guess another way to say what I meant was that there is a difference between the motivations: Are you (and by that, I mean the ‘royal’ you), attaching these symbols for individuation, or is it for true statement making?

    If it’s individuation, then the lines can get really blurry when people start defining their identity with their causes, and an affectation gets elevation undeserved, and becomes immune to criticism (if you’re a postmodernist, that is), because it’s all about identity.

    If it’s for true activism, then I have a real problem. The story in Iran is not what twitter is doing for Iranians. The story is that people are taking to the streets, which is as age-old as people taking to things. The story is of government censorship, arrests and beatings of dissidents, and the heroic people standing up for themselves. Twitter is at best, a side-note in this whole affair. It is a great facilitator, but lets not loose sight that actual people are doing actual work, and getting killed for taking to the streets, and defending a liberal sense of democracy and freedom. A green twitter avatar is nothing…insultingly so, I would add.

    My real problem with the whole green-skin avatar thing is this: It’s barely one step up from doing nothing, and in someways, it’s equal to nothing. If you (again, royal), tint your avatar green, you might be content to think that that’s a thing that’s helping, when in actuality, it’s nothing. Helping in this context is mirroring Iranian information and videos, and doing everything you can to get the information out to the rest of the world (since the rest of the world can’t be expected to be in the streets of Tehran, nor should we be). Once a person tints their avatar, the more lazy and self-righteous who think that that’s a thing are more likely to sit back, satisfied that they’re helping. But they’re not. And if you didn’t do actual help, then you’re still on the hook to do the right thing (mirroring, et. all). Twitter has a history of messing crap up (remember what Twitter did to the swine-flu scare?), and this green thing worries me because of an inevitable glut of Iran-related twitter posts which will twist the facts even more. This is a perilous journey.

    And on a slightly tangential note:
    We skeptics don’t do symbolism well. Remember how hilarious we all thought “It’s Just a Frakkin’ Cracker” was? We were all jumping all over ourselves insisting that it’s just a cracker for the rest of us non-Catholics who aren’t beholden to papacy hooliganism, and that it’s an empty symbol for the “outsider”.

    Why then should we suddenly clap our hands at how enlightened we are at our own symbols, however positive they may be? If a bunch of neo-nazis were burning a flag with a rainbow-triangle, you can bet that there would be reasonable, impassioned people be calling it a hate-crime! We’re not good at symbols when we disagree with them: we treat them with derision and we insist that we strip them of their quasi-sacred status. I don’t want to be caught holding a symbol in the spirit it’s intended in, if the over-blown backlash to a mere freakking cracker peeved me off as much as it did (it also made me laugh).

    So, the bottom line is: Are you attaching to a symbol for individuation/identity? Or are you doing so for truly altruistic reasons? The former is harmless, but complicated. The latter is honorific and noble, but fraught with truly dangerous perils of doing nothing while still thinking you’re helping. Kind of like prayer.

    I wanted to write all that before I hit the road. I’m back now, and that’s been on my mind the entire drive, and several drinks afterward.

    r’spek.

  24. @Some Canadian Skeptic: Ah, hell, forgot to mention this (though it is somewhat self-serving).

    I get a bit uppity when it comes to symbolism and it’s value because I spent the last 5 years at a supposed ‘leftist’ university that was really a collection of post-modernist (or ‘pomo’) children of privilage.

    The conversations would go something like this:
    Me: So, the transit workers are on strike. Pretty intense eh?
    Pomo: Yeah, but I totally support the strike.
    Me: You support the strike? So then you’re pro-workers?
    Pomo: I don’t know. I’m just really mad that the buses aren’t running.
    Me: Well, then that would probably put you in neither side, you’re just angry
    Pomo: No, I support the workers so long as they get back to work
    Me: then, the strike is meaningless?
    Pomo: Oh no! It’s a great expression of labor activism!
    Me: but you want them to stop that expression and get back to driving you to university?
    Pomo: I support the workers.
    Me: So are you striking with them?
    Pomo: Oh no! It’s way too cold for me! (exits stage left, clutching Heidegger and Foucault, title-out for all to see how smart they are).
    Me: STRIKE! STRIKE! STRIKE! STRIKE!

    So yeah, ask a structuralist, materialist labour-academic about symbolism and identity, he might recall some really angry moments.

    I hate pomos so much.

  25. I guess those kinds of things could raise awareness. If a person sees a bunch of green suddenly all over the internet, they might wonder why…this, of course, may lead to them finding out about what’s happening in Iran. Or, they might just shrug it off, assuming that it’s just one more way people are promoting “Being Green”. *shrugs*

  26. I sometimes try. I wore a white ribbon for marriage equality for a few days, but then lost the ribbon. It did at least spark a conversation to explain what it was about and my position. Similarly, I wore an Obama button during the campaign until I lost it. It’s hard for me to stay part of a symbolic movement, not because I change my mind about the issue but because I have a hard time with symbols. Or at least with not losing them. :-)

  27. I have an alien fish on my car, my one small and hopefully amusing strike against all the religious fish around Mesa. I also have a blue star banner in my apartment window in honor of my son in Iraq. And a no-religious people sign on my front door.

    I did the blacked out avatar/icon thing when that was going on, because I thought showing worldwide support could actually change things. But I don’t think in this case the green wash will do a bit of good. Seems too shallow/popular/trendy. Half these people are clueless about the whole political mess and are just following the herd.

  28. I like the green overlays as a way to bond the “hivemind” together in a sacred task…reinforcing authenticity, awareness, accountability, and action. They are a vote for common human decency and hopefully, eventually, rationality and right action.

  29. I guess my problem with things like the green overlay is that most people really have no clue what is going on in Iran other than what they hear on the news. Most people don’t have friends or family there, and have no real sense of what should happen with the government. I, for one, hope that whatever happens is the best for the people, and what they voted on, but I can’t say anything more than that because I’m really not involved.

    That being said, I think supporting causes that are meaningful and important to you are completely valid. Being atheist, vegetarian, a teacher, a (hopeful) rollergirl, a musician, a skeptic, and a person who is very interested in social justice, supporting these causes and organizations makes sense to me. Most people I work with, for example, think rollergirls are amazonian lesbians. They are very confused when I try to tell them otherwise, but they’re getting it.

    I, personally, would not display a symbol for something that I was not otherwise involved in. I would feel uncomfortable if somebody asked me about a cause or organization and all I could say is, “somebody told me it’s awesome.” I like to have some information AND some experience before I start a conversation about something.

  30. TMarie @6 – I sang on a Cure tribute album that donated to Invisible Children!

    I saw a “Zeus is God, read the Iliad” bumper sticker a while back (in my neighborhood, the “Jesus is god, read the bible” or spanish translation is popular), and it made me feel a little less alone (and also inspired me to make an “Odin is God, read the Eddas” one) as a smart-alecky atheist who likes to poke fun at religion…

    I doubt that anyone with the “Jesus is God..” sticker would see the Zeus one and have, as Oprah calls it, an “A-ha moment”, though.

    But yeah, I think that at the very least, bumper stickers, t-shirts, etc, can at least give a feeling of solidarity and maybe even make someone unfamiliar with whatever they’re promoting/decrying go google it.

    Ugh, what is this amplified voice I hear through my window? Sounds like a rally at the Dream Center (apparently a youth outreach of the Angelus Temple)two blocks away. Excuse me as I close my window and scream.

  31. @Some Canadian Skeptic:

    By the by, part 2.

    I really think you have a lot of good wisdom percolating around that prairie brain of yours.

    I wish I had the patience and the wit to find a way to say the kinds of stuff you say. I agree with you completely on your approach to what I see as this rather silly, juvenile, and ultimately useless symbolism stuff.

    But, as is obvious, I cannot hold back from being ad hoministic, so to speak, about it.

    Thanks for your good, rational, and calm words.

  32. I only flaunt symbols for things I actually DO something about – like Sheltie Rescue. It keeps me honest. If I have something on my car like that, I care enough about it to volunteer my blood, sweat and treasure working for it.

    I hate those damn “Support the troops” ribbons, too. They’re just cheap patriotism – as opposed to the expensive kind that requires you to put your frail human body in the line of fire. A magnet proves nothing. Anyone can buy a farking magnet.

    @some Canadian Skeptic: I won’t cross a Union-called picket line for any reason. I was a Union steward for many years and I believe in Unions and pro-worker democracy.

  33. @SicPreFix:

    Ha! No, it wasn’t Western (though I did go to Fanshawe in the late 90’s and was made to feel like a lower-class citizen by the Western folks). I did all my university stuff at Trent, in Peterborough, which, as you’ll notice, is not in the prairies. ;) In fact, the farthest west I’ve ever been was Sudbury. Although, in a few weeks, it will be Las Vegas!

    ‘preciate the kind words!

    Also wik, You would NEVER see any union activity in Western! Unless it involved a lecture about how evil unions are, and neoliberal Restructuring of the academy is is super-awesome now that we’re re-redesigning the university system under a business model, thanks all to Ronald Reagan!

    oh…..excuse me. Allow me to eat the massive chip on my shoulder.

    SALT AND VINEGAR? WTF???

  34. I just read what I just wrote. That was embarrassingly-bad wording. I came back from a wedding like, 20 mins ago, and I’m still a LITTLE (read: little more than a little) drunk. I have a degree in the humanities! I should be able to construct my sentences better!

    Lemme try again! The Quick Brown Fox jumped over the lazy dog. I’m so awesome. Thank you Stevie Wonder, for getting me on the dance floor. Superstition, indeed.

    This is starting to make no sense, and I am still drunk. dammit.

  35. @SicPreFix: Wish I could’ve, but they’re like three long blocks away, and it was a guy on a PA…so any noise I could make (even with my own small PA) would be like a drop in the ocean or something.

    @QuestionAuthority:
    Someone once said something about the assholtitude of a driver being proportionate to the amount of “patriotic” flair on the driver’s car…I have found, in my experience, this to be true.

  36. I had gads of bumper stickers on my Jeep, from “visualize using your turn signal” and Obi Wan Kenobi quotes to pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, and pro-NASCAR. I had a Darwin fish plaque, a pagan pentacle, and I even had a “support our troops -bring them home” magnetic ribbon for about two days until someone stole it.
    Of course, it was the “born okay the first time” sticker that caused someone to pull up next to me and inform me that he should rip that thing right off my truck. “That wouldn’t be very ‘Christian’ of you, would it?” I countered.

    I sold the Jeep and got a new car, though, and I’m loath to ever have to go through the bumper sticker removal process again, so I haven’t put any on my new car, yet. I did have an Obama ’08 sticker taped to my back window until about a week ago when my husband started driving my car to work (better mpg than his ZR2 -which is for sale!) and we felt it might be prudent not to shout our political allegiances in hickville…

    I have stickers on some of my folders, a mini Obama poster in my work cube, and buttons? Oh, I gots buttons. Mostly on the bag I bring to work, but I have a boxful so I can switch them out from time to time. My positions on most issues are no secret.

    Is it helpful or useful, or pointless? Dunno. It makes me feel important, though, and that’s what matters, right?
    I think the key is, if you’re going to wear a button or a t-shirt or have a bumper sticker on your car or your freezer or something, you have to be able to discuss the topic intelligently. Otherwise, you just confirm your detractors’ biases. Oh, and if you have a sticker on your car and then you drive like an asshole, you make others think that everyone who supports your position is also an asshole. So, you know, be what you wear.

  37. My car is pretty standard, I suppose. I have a darwin fish and an Obama “Hope” sticker I got working for the campaign.

    As to why I have them on my car, it’s not to convince anyone to take my side or anything. It’s absurd to expect to bumperstickers or ornaments to do that, obviously. Instead, I have two reasons for sticking them on my window and trunk.

    1. It’s an expression of solidarity. In my little college town in the South, the population is pretty evenly split between the young, college students with equality stickers or fair trade buttons and Jesus fish and bible quotes. My Darwin fish and Obama sticker are a way of showing my support for my fellow secularists in town.

    2. Perhaps even more importantly, I have them on my car in order to show those with their Jesus fish and “John 3:16” bumper stickers that there are those out there who have very different values then them. I feel like the majority of the religious right feels emboldened by their perception of being the “moral majority”, and the stickers are my way of letting them know that we’re out there and not afraid of speaking up about our rights or beliefs anymore.

  38. Let’s see…on my car is ‘Keep Your Laws Off My Body’, ‘Eschew Obfuscation’ and ‘Obama/Biden Because Two Minds Are Better Than None.’

    Plus ‘Blessed Be’ from my pagan days. I keep it cause most of my friends are pagan and I like to support them. Pagans are (also!) very maligned by christians and leaving the sticker on there trumpets their existence to others. I smile when I see another pagan bumper sticker.

    I get the most comments on the first one. It’s interesting to see what people first assume it means. Usually I get asked if I’m pro-choice. I am. But I’m also very libertarian and against laws about most drugs, prostitution, seatbelt and helmet laws…etc.

    I like promting conversation and expressing something different. If a lie is repeated enough people believe it, they say. So I think when other viewpoints are put in people’s faces, they subconciously start to realize there’s more than one opinion and that’s ok. It’s hard to feel self important about your beliefs, thinking they’re universal, that is, if others also speak up.

    I have looked up stuff I saw on cars a few times. Daily I was seeing a car that said ‘Orisha Oshun.’ I HAD to KNOW!

    @ZachTP: of COURSE Phil and Kaja rock! I have a large original drawing of theirs framed in my bedroom. And a trilobite pin, and a Castle Wolfenbach pin, and the card game…need I go on? LOL
    I think Girl Genius is great for atheists. All the Mad Science!!!!

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