 Cross posted at rinderpest.com.Â
Well, as you all know, I’ve been out of the loop for a couple of days. I was at The Amazing Meeting 5.5 conference in Florida over the weekend, sponsored by the James Randi Educational Foundation, and drank so much whiskey at the conference parties, it took me until today to be able to form complete sentences again.
But my typing fingers seem to be working again, so let’s get back to some alien space craft ridiculousness, shall we?
While I was gone, a new twist in the Texas UFO story surfaced. Seems the air force recanted its earlier denial of having fighter jets in the area where locals reported a UFO, and admitted that they did indeed have a some planes in the air at the time.
From what I gather, it looks as though this change in their story is either in response to the overwhelming hype surrounding the incident that exploded in Stephenville back on January 8, or it’s simply a matter of the air force spokespeople involved not having clearance to report the fighter jet activity when initially asked.
Or it could very well be a combination of the two.
However, if the military’s admission was meant solely to put an end to the hullabaloo, they didn’t think it through very well. I sat across the aisle from some fellow Texans on the plane ride home from Florida who were very vocal that the reversal by the air force was proof that the government is covering something up.
Covering something up? The government?!?!
It amazes me how many of the same people who rail against the government for its incompetence, have the temerity to think it can nonetheless cover up something like alien visitation.
“Oh, the government can’t balance the budget, conduct a proper humanitarian effort in New Orleans, or stop desperate people from crossing its borders, but it can hide a race of beings that possess the intelligence and technology to cross lights years of space to visit us.”
Sheesh!
On the other side of things, knowing what we know about how slow the various government agencies work, especially in post-9/11 America and in a time of war, it seems more plausible to assume the military officials who were initially asked about the sighting were simply not in a position to offer information at that time. The default position is most likely “no military activity” until they are cleared to say, “Yes there was military activity. What the folks of Stephenville saw were such and such aircraft practicing such and such maneuvers”.
Incidentally, while in Florida, I happened to catch the Larry King Live show discussion about the Stephenville sightings. Michael Shermer of Skeptic Society fame was the voice of reason on the panel, and he did a solid job of presenting the rational side like he always does. Our friend, Phil Plait, The Bad Astronomer, was asked to be on the panel, but was of course the emcee at TAM 5.5, and therefor unable to participate.
It didn’t matter though, the show went about as expected. Larry is infamous for believing every whacko thing to come down the pike, and he loves to jam pack his panels with mostly creduloids. To his credit, though, he will sometimes invite a good scientist or a good skeptic to join in, though I suspect he has no clue how science and skepticism work. He’s never demonstrated that he does. I don’t even think his suspenders are connected to any pants. I think they’re just straps that hold his ancient ass in his chair.
But there are a couple things I can say for certain after watching that broadcast. Most people abandon critical thinking faster than the speed of sound, and Larry King remains the creepiest thing on TV.
At any rate, if there are any further developments in this story, I’ll do my best to keep you posted.
As soon as I heard that the Air Force Reserve had confirmed the presence of military aircraft in the area, I knew that the conspiracy theorists would latch onto it as "evidence" of a cover-up. A big thank you to the Defense Department for fanning that flame, however inadvertently.
In a way, it would almost be comforting to know that, given enough effort, the U.S. government could successfully manage such a massive, coordinated and thorough operation. It would indicate that the government merely lacked the WILL to do anything else right, rather than the ABILITY, as generally appears to be the case. We'd know that, if we got them sufficiently fired up, they could do just about anything. (Climate change, I'm lookin' at you.)
As a side note, I think we as a community need to take the word "unidentified" back. We shouldn't let true believers conflate the term with "alien."
If you're going to attempt to gather evidence and make a determination of what you saw, or calmly accept that you can't figure it out, then you can call it unidentified. If you're going to leap to an otherwise unsupported conclusion, you have use a word like alien or extraterrestrial that clearly indicates the (assbasket crazy) conclusion you've drawn.
maybe you should look into project bluebook?
I'm assuming you mean the same Project Bluebook which concluded that something over 90% of all reported UFOs sightings had perfectly mundane terrestrial explanations?
yes..thats the one…..what I'm saying is this.
the government researches this stuff…they have whole departments and funding for this stuff. if the government puts all this time/money/research into it, then why do you think its just pure myth? I dont think the goverment would waste billions of dollars researching myths…do you? because thats what they have spent since the late 40's…BILLIONS! and they still at it.
there is another book you can get from the gov, called something like the project 12 or something, where the gov, uses technollogy from the roswell ufo and builds an american ufo..(with pics) which ultimately brings about that little ufo they use now in the military to scope out militant activity and such…I'm not saying you should believe in aliens, but obviously the US hasnt ruled it out??
As if wasting money wasn't something the government was good at….
But they're NOT still at it. Blue Book was shut down in the late 60s, and the Air Force no longer investigates UFO sightings.
Unless you're privy to budget information for a government agency that the rest of us haven't been able to uncover. I'd be very interested in seeing any evidence that the US government is still actively investigating UFO sightings, especially if they're spending billions of dollars on it in such economicly uncertain times.
yes they still research it. just like they research other strange phenomenon,
but I dont personally know they name of the department or anything. but the freedom of information act will allow you to know anything about the gov,
I dont think it will be to hard to find out…matter of fact the creator of X files got the idea for the show based on this governmental branch…look up info on that guy.
But that's not my job. You made the claim that "the government researches this stuff…they have whole departments and funding for this stuff." It's not up to me to substantiate your claim.
My conclusion is that the US government no longer actively investigates UFO sightings. As evidence, I'm relying on the status of Project Blue Book, and the consistent statements by the government organization that ran it that they no longer conduct those investigations. If you want to refute my conclusions, the burden of supporting your claims with evidence is yours.
Believe me, I'd love it if there was any evidence whatsoever that interstellar travel and extraterrestrial intelligence were reality. Discovering that the US government's official position was that those things were real might give me some small hope that they were. (Although given their track record on global warming, I'd want to take a hard look at how they backed up those conclusions.) However, I don't believe that the government holds that position. If you do, then by all means present some evidence. Don't expect me to do it.
BTW, the creator of "The X-Files" was Chris Carter.
From space.com:
"Well, it turns out that the government does have something to hide, but it has nothing to do with extraterrestrials," said Steven Aftergood, director of the Project on Government Secrecy at the Federation of American Scientists in Washington, D.C.
A document has surfaced that had been stamped "Top Secret Umbra"–the codeword for the highest, most sensitive category of communications intelligence.
The once-classified affidavit was originally filed by the National Security Agency (NSA) in a 1980 lawsuit to justify the withholding of records on UFOs. The document is largely declassified–with certain sections cut out, ostensibly to protect employee names, and keep NSA technologies, skills, and foreign connections out of the limelight.
The document–In Camera Affidavit of Eugene F. Yeates: Citizens Against UFO Secrecy v. National Security Agency, October 9, 1980–was released in redacted form on November 3 in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request from researcher Michael Ravnitzky and posted on the website of the Federation of American Scientists
Created in November 1952, The National Security Agency/Central Security Service is America's cryptologic organization. It coordinates, directs, and performs highly specialized activities to protect U.S. government information systems and churns out foreign signals intelligence information.
You can read more about it on the website…
Heres more:
websites & organizations
——————————————————————————–
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) – UFO Documents
UFO Documents from the CIA, obtained through Freedom of Information Act. This collection catalogues CIA information on this subject from the 1940s through the early 1990s. Most of the documents concern CIA cables reporting unsubstantiated UFO sightings in the foreign press and intra-Agency memos about how the Agency handled public inquiries about UFO sightings. For the most recent CIA information on UFOs, see the article "CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90" at the Center for the Study of Intelligence website (www.odci.gov/csi). The article is located in On-line Publications under the "Studies in Intelligence" section, specifically semi-annual Edition #1, 1997.
Defense Intelligence Agency – FOIA UFO Documents
Defense Intelligence Agency
Freedom of Information Act government documents concerning UFOs from the Defense Intelligence Agency. (UFO documents are listed on this page, along with other topics.)
FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation) – Unidentified Flying Objects
UFO Documents from the FRI, obtained through Freedom of Information Act. "The FBI documents represented by the above-listed electronic documents were taken from the Freedom of Information Act Reading Room at FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C. These FBI documents have been scanned from paper copies as released to FOIPA requesters over the years. In some instances, the copy quality is poor because the original files are in fragile condition. These are the best reproductions available."
National Security Agency (NSA) UFO Documents
The documents listed on this page were located in response to the numerous requests received by NSA on the subject of Unidentified Flying Objects. In 1980, NSA was involved in Civil Action No. 80-1562, Citizens Against Unidentified Flying Objects Secrecy v. National Security Agency. Documents related to that ligitation are marked with *. "XXXXX" has been inserted in a title if a portion of the title has been deleted prior to release.
The Black Vault
Archived here, you will find thousands among thousands of government documents, in their actual scanned form, ranging from a vast array of subjects. These subjects span across many different "conspiracy" theories and other historical documentation such as the existance of UFO's, Alien cover-ups, Nuclear and Biological Weapons, Space, World War II (the historical nature) and many more subjects that will keep you browsing for hours. All documents contained here were obtained through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), and are completely 100% genuine. Some documents contained within this archive are not seen anywhere else in the world, and came to the light of day because of the FOIA request made for specifically this archive.
The Majestic Documents
Robert Wood, Ryan Wood
"What we have here is the evidence. We have scores of documents, hundreds of thousands of words, hundreds of pages, of which most are top secret code word. Not just photocopies, but originals with real inks, watermarks and testable paper. The vast majority has never been seen before. We present here the detailed documentation that seems to place the stamp of reality upon the recovery of crashed extraterrestrial vehicles by the United States from 1947–1954. This validates what most people already accept: there is extraterrestrial life and we are not alone. This presentation by Dr. Robert M. and Ryan S. Wood follows chronologically a paper evidence trail left by former Presidents, military and intelligence leaders of the time."
U.S. Department of Defense – Office of the Secretary of Defense/Joint Staff Electronic Reading Room Documents Concerning UFO's
U.S. Department of Defense – Defenselink
Freedom of Information documents from the U.S. Department of Defense, concerning UFOs. According to their website, "The documents displayed below reflects all current Office of the Secretary of Defense (OSD)/Joint Staff (JS) holdings on this subject matter. "
This site has links to all of the above gov agencies, so you can read from the agency itself… .http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/Documents.htm
Little Bald Bastard, as to your first comment, I agree completely. The first post I made about this case on my other blog touches on the word "unidentified" and how it plays into this.
Also, I wanted to keep closer track of this story, but I had to leave for Fort Lauderdale as things were really heating up.
And Rav, thanks for the perfect, concise rejoinder.
It is good to be skeptical but the government is lying. Do some real research on this matter. Everyone will know soon I am certain, but in the meantime check it out. UFO's And The Star People I wouldn't say a thing except that I have seen these things and more than once. I am not talking about a random light in the sky either. If you look into Stargate and what is going on there you might get some idea as to why certain government officials don't care what happens to us.
Stargate the Kurt Russell movie? Not since Snake Plissken have I been so moved by a performance of his.
urblind, I appreciate the extensive documentation you've presented here. However, after a cursory reading, I have to point out that it doesn't support your contention that the government is still investigating UFO sightings. The most recent date range in the list of sources you gave appears to be "the early 90s." Even stretching that phrase as far as is possible (and ignoring the fact that the article it refers to clearly ends it focus at 1990), that would still mean that this is evidence (perhaps) of activities that occurred no more recently than 13 or 14 years ago.
Sam, I have to disagree with you. Eric Stoltz basically carried Kurt Russell in Stargate.
Also, can I have permission to link to my own blog as a primary source for future debates? I figure that would be a great way to drive traffic. Thanks!
So urblind, are space aliens Christians too? Did Jesus make it to other dimensions/planets/whatevers?
Oh, by Jakka, PLEASE don't encourage him.
Little Bald Bastard, are you wanting to link within the comments? If so, I have no problem with that. Clicking your name already takes us there.
If you want to be added to the Skepchick blogroll, send an email to [email protected] and Rebecca will make the determination.
If it's all right with you, I'm going to add you to my bloggerhood on rinderpest.com.
Sam,
Thanks, but I was joking about that, in reference to BLAse's suggestion that we should do some "real research on this matter," followed by a link to his own blog. I'm not smart enough to be a primary source about anything more contentious than my own current location.
Thanks for the link from your site. I'll be adding a reciprocal link shortly. Believe it or not, Rebecca has already honored me with a spot on the Skepchick blogroll. Without it, my hit counter would be dusty from non-use.
Ah, so she did. I was looking for *Ask* Little Bald Bastard, and didn't see the link.
Sorry, Rav. It's all the pent-up keeping-my-mouth-shut of days past.
I understand, Fly. I understand.
I may remember this badly, but I was absolutely certain Eric Stolz isn't even in Stargate.
I think I saw it on the BBC just a week ago by the way.
Little Bald Bastard said,
January 29, 2008 at 4:06 pm
urblind, I appreciate the extensive documentation you’ve presented here. However, after a cursory reading, I have to point out that it doesn’t support your contention that the government is still investigating UFO sightings. The most recent date range in the list of sources you gave appears to be “the early 90s.†Even stretching that phrase as far as is possible (and ignoring the fact that the article it refers to clearly ends it focus at 1990), that would still mean that this is evidence (perhaps) of activities that occurred no more recently than 13 or 14 years ago.
well I dont know…I dint look into it in great detail either. but still thought you might be interested in the read?
urblind wrote:
you should check out a book called "the men who stare at goats". Can't remember the author off the top of my head.
It's about the "secret government research" into psychic abilities, and basically explains how one particular project involved a bunch of so-called psychics staring at goats trying to induce a stroke, or a heart attack, or any way of knocking them over. For years on end. This is what taxpayer money was used for.
So don't claim the government doesn't waste money on researching myths.
For that matter, they don't seem to care about wasting money on teaching myths, like abstinence only sexual education.
good thing you dont work for the government…
Yes. Cos if you wanna work for the government these days, higher brain function is a definite drawback.
Exarch, you're absolutely right. The other male lead in Stargate was James Spader. That's what I get for talking about movies without checking IMDB.
I also think you make a good point about government research and teaching about myths. I wonder if the current administration's effort to obfuscate and discredit research about climate change is in the same vein. That kind of misinformation spreading isn't exactly teaching, but it seems to me to be the trailing edge of the same feather.
While I'm at it, there's an example of the government trying to cover up something huge and failing miserably. if they were really capable of such a thotough conspiracy, wouldn't they have been a lot more successful at supressing studies that disagreed with their official position on global warming?
Hi again Sam,
That was funny, but seriously for anyone interested in Stargate, I am not talking about the movie although that was a big LOL. Hehe. Dr. Dan Burisch is a microbiologist who received his Ph.D. from the State University of New York and he discusses Stargate in one of his last interviews. He spent a year at area 51 with an E.T. named J-Rod. He goes into great detail about both the technology and the politics of the Stargates and the Looking Glass. It really makes you wonder, after watching these, what the governments may be up to. Thanks again for this discussion post. UFO's And The Star People
An alien named "Gerard" huh?
You sure he wasn't just a French scientist who overstayed his work visa?
So a government desperately interested in secrecy spends money instructing a microbiologist about alien technology, and one who can't keep his trap shut either?
Who do they get to work at their secret biological weapons plants – ballet dancers?
Don't be silly, the penguins can't dance.
Okay, so my last two responses were a bit harsh.
I wonder though. What's more likely? That the US government has somehow managed to keep the planet's biggest secret EVER secret for all these years, apart from a movie and about 8 seasons of TV show with at least one spin off, or that one crazy person who can't discern fantasy from reality watched that TV show and wrote a book saying it's all real?
For that matter, is his book classed as fiction or non-fiction?
The distinction is not merely a matter of where in the library to shelve it …
Actually it is no longer a secret. I'm no expert myself so really if you are that interested in the subject you should watch the interview. I don't see any reason why the man would lie about such serious matters. The only reason I became interested is because of what I do know to be true, from my own experiences and I certainly have no reason to lie and embarrass myself on the internet. Definately not for attention as I'm not even using my real name. I just want the world to wake up and learn the truth.
Quote: "My conclusion is that the US government no longer actively investigates UFO sightings. As evidence, I’m relying on the status of Project Blue Book, and the consistent statements by the government organization that ran it that they no longer conduct those investigations. If you want to refute my conclusions, the burden of supporting your claims with evidence is yours."
Hi Bastard:
I'm am not sure what the word "evidence" means any more when it comes to the ufo or alien subject, because I always assumed was evidence good documentation, excellent witnesses etc… As far catching one of the aliens that has already been done more than once. Please don't ask random people who have come into contact to try to catch an e.t. that would be going too far I think, but they do get photographs and video. Although some may not be legit, many are. I know I have some. So, there is more evidence that you choose to dismiss. If you have ever watched the disclosure project. They have over 400 witnesses. These witnesses worked for the government, Nasa, military, highly decorated people, on and on… They have come forward with massive amounts of documents, photographs, and best of all their own word and are willing to swear in front of congress, risking pensions and more that was threatened by the government to be taken from them. Dying men, on their death bed have come forward as their last word to tell you these things are true. Why? Why would they bother? Proof. What do you call proof? Please explain.
By the way do we really want to go there about Jesus? I don’t think so, but I can if need be. Read Revelations.
I'd like to point out that just because people who used to work for project bluebook have "loads of pictures", that doesn't say anything about the genuine nature or lack thereof of thepicture's subjects.
From what I've heard and read, almost all of the pictures were found to be either doctored, pranks, or not actually pictures of alien spacecraft.
Of the remaining "unidentified flying objects", nohing more could be said than that they were unable to identify them.
In the end, the government stopped investigating them probably for the simple reason that they initially started the investigations to show people that most of what passes as pictures/footage of alien spacecraft is actually something else. Yet every time the government concludes that it was in fact something else, the UFO-believers mark it down as yet one more example of a cover up, then the whole point of the effort is effectively moot, and you'll spread less ignorance if you don't do anything than if you try and educate people against their will.
I think the most poignant fact of all is that the Roswell incident actually WAS a cover up. It's just that they didn't cover up a UFO-crash, they covered up secret high altitude weather balloon tests (intended for espionage). It's interesting to ponder what would have happened if they wouldn't have tried to cover it up? Would we have had any conspiracy nutters today?
There's a difference between lying and being mistaken or deluded.
Why not.
That's someone who lots of people believe in, but someone for whom there isn't good evidence of their divinity. Many people believe based on nothing more than having been told the guy was [part of] a deity, and/or because they want it to be true. There are people who claim to have seen the guy, but who are only likely to be believed by other believers, as would be true of other figures in other religions.
It would seem counterproductive for a government to withdraw or threaten to withdraw pensions in retaliation for someone daring to speak to congress, especially if (as is plainly the case) that person isn't likely to be taken seriously.
Fundamentally, alien belief runs into the same logical issue as deity belief.
If aliens/deities exist, and have the abilities claimed about them, and wanted people to know about them, then everyone would know about them.
If aliens exist, with great abilities, and are trying to stay unobserved, then if the believers are to be believed, the aliens are doing an atrociously bad job, what with flying saucers buzzing the planet, and taking random citizens for medical probing and then returning them, rather than stealing a few anatomy books from a library and grabbing the odd human who wouldn't be missed for long-term study.
Surely, "some are obvious fakes, others less obviously so, some too vague to be sure".
A photograph these days is extraordinarily hard to rely on as any kind of evidence.
As we all know, the complete lack of evidence is a sure indication that there IS in fact, a cover-up.
So, if these really are experimental alien-derived aircraft, what the hell are they actually used for, apart from recklessly and continually appearing to small numbers of people, or causing countless near misses?
Are the crews of these special aircraft really selected for incompetence, foolhardiness and total lack of discretion?
Couldn't be– Only POLITICIANS are chosen based on those metrics.
In other words, until a ufo lands on your head, you refuse to believe. That's fair enough. I will be back to see your comments when one does, and mark my words you will find out that we aren't alone I feel very soon. Anyway, it has been fun and I definately will check back. I love this place and again thanks for posting it.
Actually, if a UFO lands on my head, I'm still going to be skeptical. Even if an unusual craft lands on top of me, it's still far more likely to be an exotic terrestrial craft than something from another planet. Before I conclude that it's an EXTRATERRESTRIAL.F.O., I'd need to see some evidence of its origin.
Assuming, of course, that I haven't been crushed.
Blase,
Do free free to avoid from the obvious skeptical questions, such as how a supposedly secret alien tech-transfer organisation would allow things to be tested where they couldn't help but be seen, by pilots too reckless or incompetent to avoid countless near-misses.
Given the number of very US airforce bases in the arse-end-of nowhere, who in their right mind would flight-test top-secret-ultra aircraft in congested airspace over human-infested land?
If there were aliens who didn't want to be noticed, aren't they doing a rubbish job?
If there were aliens who wanted to be noticed, why don't they make themselves really obvious?
I guess asking obvious questions shows we're not yet ready for the truth, or that we're part of some evil conspiracy.
If you are addressing me, I think you misunderstood my comments. I was merely trying to point out how many of these witnesses could be mistaken about what they've seen, and why they don't necessarily make good witnesses.
But to address your comment, no I don't refuse to believe anything. I just happen to require better evidence before I do. And technically, if it lands on my head it won't be a UFO. If it lands on my head, I'm pretty sure I will be able to identify it.
PH: I don't know a whole lot about the test flights or why they would do this in congested areas. The e.t flights I doubt are tests, and when they do show up around conventional aircraft I think what they are doing there depends on the situation like what the other aircrafts motivations are. As far as doing a rubbish job of remaining seen or unseen, they are showing themselves everywhere, and for what reason of course I am not certain at all. Possibly, they are showing themselves more and more to desensitize us at a rate they feel comfortable. After all we are a very aggressive race. I have seen how fast they move, which can be like a bolt of lightening or on the other hand glide along like they could care less if anyone sees them, so I know they are capable of doing pretty much as they please.
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Quote: "So, if these really are experimental alien-derived aircraft, what the hell are they actually used for, apart from recklessly and continually appearing to small numbers of people, or causing countless near misses?"
________________________________________________________________________
I really don't think the near misses are with experimental aircraft. I think they are probably with e.t aircraft, but who knows. They are not appearing to small numbers but are in fact appearing to thousands every year. Those are only the reported sightings. Thousands of sightings are reported every year worldwide, but many more than that go unreported because of skepticism. Fear of ridicule etc..
Sam: I didn't mean to make it sound that I hoped a Ufo would fall on your head. Of course I wouldn't want that to happen and I wasn't addressing you personally. I realize that many people have mistaken what they have seen for a ufo, but many more were correct in what they have seen. I know, and would like to make it clear that the area I live in doesn't have military flying around. I have said this before. That UNLESS George Bush was flying around and hovering in a saucer shaped airplane over the closed down mine in my tiny town, looking like Mr. Burns from the Simpsons counting all of the resources he stole then they were definately UFO's that I saw. Maybe he could be mistaken for the little people that drive these things as well. I dunno.
I don't doubt that you saw something (object) that appeared to be flying (flying) and it was unidentifiable (unidentified) to you. This happens to most everyone on a daily basis. We see things in the sky, or that appear to be in the sky, that we cannot identify.
But to go from that rather ordinary experience to assuming the objects are alien space craft with little green men piloting them is a leap I would guess most folks here aren't willing to take.
A better approach would be to first determine if what you're seeing is actually an object. (The sun or a mirror reflecting off a rain cloud or something called temperature inversion for example, can give the impression of something solid in the sky when in fact, there is no tangible object associated with the phenomenon.)
Second, you would want to ascertain if the object is indeed flying. (How often has a child's balloon or kite gotten loose and caused a stir because it's being blown about? Yet there is no intelligence piloting it. It is not flying.)
Next, if it is indeed an object, and it is indeed flying, then you have to try to identify it. And the best place to start is with objects that are known that indeed fly (e.g. birds, helicopters, airplanes, etc.)
If you can't identify it using your personal catalog of known flying objects, it's a more reasonable next step to try to determine if it is a man-made object that you are simply not familiar with. Examples of this type of thing surface all the time. Dirigibles when they were first launched, and more recently, stealth jets that were being secretly tested for years.
The point is, given what we know about the unidentified things we see in the sky, there is no reason whatsoever to conclude that they are alien space craft. In fact, rationally speaking, we should not even entertain that possibility, unless there is some evidence to suggest that it might be the case. And in no instance, since these things have been recorded, has there been such evidence associated with any event.
“I’d like to point out that just because people who used to work for project bluebook have “loads of picturesâ€, that doesn’t say anything about the genuine nature or lack thereof of thepicture’s subjects.”
I don’t recall mentioning blue book. I am talking about actual witnesses, not the collection of data the government put together.
All witnesses are more than willing to swear to congress that their stories are true. Many of these people are now retired and are hoping the others will be released from the choke hold the government has on them and gives them immunity to do the same.
The first witness is John Callahan (FAA Head Of Accidents and Investigations) video taped a ufo event and after briefing his Regans people and asked if it would be shown to the public, and was told that no one would ever speak of it and it never happened. He still has the reports and tapes.
Lt. Col. Charles Brown (US Air Force) analyzed data on ufo sightings. He fully believes these cases that he studied and says they were very reputable people who reported them. He believes pressure needs to be put on congress to bring this to light in the world.
A very nervous looking Michael Smith (US Air Force Radar Controller) He arrived at a radar sight and watched a ufo hover and was told not to write anything down and keep it to himself. He witnessed these things many times including a call from 3 police officers who were chasing one and after confirming this on his radar had to tell them that there was nothing on radar.
Erique Kolbeck (Senior Air Traffic Controller in Mexico) tells of many near collisions with ufo’s in his country and sightings that are very frequent. He and his country are worried about the dangers of crashes.
Commander Graham Bethune (US Navy) was flying and saw a glow as though approaching a city on the water. Then another smaller craft that was launched from the big craft and it was dome shape. It was tracked by radar in excess of 1800 miles per. hour. Trying to avoid colliding with it, some of the crew members were injured. There were 31 passengers plus a psychiatrist, all who witnessed this event. After being interrogated about this there is an 18 page report.
Dan Willis (US Navy) says in 1969 he received a priority message from a ship near Alaska that was classified as secret. The ship reported a brightly glowing reddish orange ufo about 70 ft. in diameter coming out of the water then shot into space traveling at about 7000 miles per. hour. It was tracked on ships radar.
Don Phillips (Lockheed Skunkworks and CIA Contractor) says in Las Vegas at a radar base in 1966 at about 8000 ft. he woke up to a lot of commotion and looks outside to see along with others see ufo’s going at a speed of about 2800 miles per. hour. They would come to a dead stop and then reverse and speed away then group. This is close to area 51 (Groom Lake Flight Test Facility). Other radar peoples from another base came by and had also witnessed this.
Captain Robert Salas says in March of 1967 he was a missel launch officer and when he was underground monitoring 10 nuclear tipped missels, he got a call from his head security officer above who was telling him there were strange lights in the sky. He told him not to call him unless there was something more. The security officer called him back obviously very frightened, stating there were bright glowing red oval shaped object hovering outside the gate. He had all the other guards out with their weapons drawn. Salas called his commander to relay what he’d heard and during that call all of the missels began to shut down and were rendered unlaunchable. At the same time another missel base had a similar experience where their missels were also shut down after ufo’s hovering. There were 16 missels lost that night. There are documents to support this and other witnesses.
Lt. Colonel Dwynne Amesson (US Air Force) held a top secret SCI TK Clearance which is slightly above top secret relates three occurrances of ufo’s. He remembers crashes of ufo’s. He also remembers the missels being shut down by ufo’s. Harland Bentley (US Army) states that in May 1958 he woke up to a sound outside. He got out of his bunk and watched a ufo crash and he saw pieces brake off then it took off again. The next day he got a call about many ufo’s hovering which he tracked on his radar screen. He determined they were going at 7000 miles an hour. Ten years later he was working somewhere in California on a classified project. At about 2 or 3 in the morning he heard on the radio the astronauts talking that they were seeing ufo’s.
John Maynard (Defense Intelligence Agency) held top secret clearance and had access to very sensitive documents. He had to read and sign every document. He read many references to and saw many ufo’s. He nearly became part of the black operations but says he saw the light and didn’t. He wants to disclose what the government knows. Sergeant Karl Wolf (US Air Force) had top secret crypto clearance. In mid 1965 he was told that a base on the back side of the moon has been discovered and he was shown photographs of sperical and mushroom shaped buildings and other structures. He naively thought he would hear it on the evening news.
Donna Hare (Nasa Employee) was able to go into restricted areas. One time she walked into a photo lab area and was shown pictures of ufo’s. Suprised, she asked if they were going to be shown to the public. The person who had shown her, told her that he airbrushes the pesky little creatures out of the pictures before sharing them with the public. After that she began to ask around outside of work, her co workers about these things. One security guard told her that he
was asked to burn some photos and was always told not to look at them. He was also being guarded while doing this, but his curiosity got the best of him so he looked and saw a picture of a ufo. He got clubbed over the head, knocked out and ended up with a huge gash on the head. After that, he feared for his life. She was told that the apollo astronauts saw ufo’s when they landed but were not allowed to say. She says she worked out there for years and many people don’t know these things unbelievably but true.
Larry Warren (US Air Force Security Officer) says in 1980 he had a secret security clearance went through a 3 night ufo event where the crafts were firing beams of light. Potentially aliens seen. He speaks of his brothers in arms, saying he hopes one day they will be given ammunity to beable to come out and tell all they’ve witnessed.
Maj. George A. Filer, III (US Air Force) didn’t believe in ufo’s until he was called out to chase one by air. He got about a mile from it and it lit up and took off into space. The ufo’s turn off all the
electrical controls. He also was there when one had crashed at Fort Dix. There was an alien shot by a policeman. He would get more than 100 reports from citizens every day.
Sgt. Clifford Stone (US Army) had a secret clearance with nuclear shorty. He was involved in the recovery of bodies, saucers and living aliens. In 1969 was his first experience with recovering a ufo. He was the first person to see the bodies. He says it is evidence denied to the american people. “Governments must never lie to the people, for no reason.”
Mark McCandlish (US Air Force) twice had a secret security clearance. He has watched ufo’s hover over weapons facility and then depart faster than a bullet leaving a rifle barrel. He talks about experimental aircraft. These have been around since 1960, which are saucer shaped and fly at mach 20 and flewn by air force members.
Daniel Sheehan (Attorney) was called and told that President Carter had asked the then director of central intelligence George Bush Sr. for the classified info on extraterrestrials and ufo’s. The
president was refused this information by George Bush Sr. He feared the information would be given out to the public. Sheehan attempted to get access to the vatican library and was refused access. In 1977 after getting clearance and going through two guards and found a dozen photographs of crashed ufo’s. He also made tracings of symbols on one of the crafts. Undetected he got them out of there. He also served on the Karen Silkwood case.
Dr. Carol Rosin in 1974 met with the father of Rocketry. He told her that we have to stop the weaponization of space and repeated over and over about “The last card” which was Et’s. He said it is all lies about the need for putting weapons in space. None of the other countries want space based weapons. The starwars project is all based on lies.
BLASe, I would never presume to comment on the validity of the conspiracies you’ve mentioned in your longer comments here. All too often, those vehemently crying “cover-up” are the ones whose claims have been shown to be ordinary occurences after they have invested a lot of time and energy professing that they are otherwise. Perhaps it’s just easier to cry conspiracy than it is to admit a mistake. I don’t know.
But to your list of supposed expert witnesses, I would submit that the examples you cite are of precisely the wrong people to be credible witnesses in UFO cases. The reason they are bad witnesses for things unidentified and supposedly flying is because they are so thoroughly conditioned for the expected. They have to be in order to be good at their jobs.
For example, top air force pilots are extremely practiced at recognizing the behaviors of various aircraft. They must be, because it can be a matter of life or death for them. But that conditioning infuses certain expectations about things that appear to be flying or that appear to be airborne. It also infuses certain expectations about what exactly will and can appear in the sky. When those pilots see something in the air, or something that appears to be in the air, those expectations take over. To them, it’s an aircraft, and it is bound by a certain range of behaviors. That’s their expectation.
But when that “object” doesn’t fit within those expectation, the conclusion is drawn that what they’re seeing is still an aircraft of some sort, but that possesses a set of behaviors that goes beyond the possible. The possibility that it may not be an aircraft at all, or that it may not even be flying at all, is not within their set of conditioned expectations, and therefor can be simply overlooked.
Consider a magician appearing to grab a coin from one hand with his other hand only to have it “disappear”. That trick works on adults better than it does children, because as a adults, we’ve seen people pass things from one hand to the other time and time again throughout our lives, and through that repetition, that conditioning, we expect it to be in the other hand. So we unconsciously eliminate a lot of the “in-between stuff”, and we’re fooled by the trick.
A child on the hand, needs to see that coin go into the other hand, because he or she is not so conditioned for the expectation. He or she is still paying attention to the “in-between stuff”, the stuff that falls outside the expectation.
The ‘motivation’ of passenger flights is to land safely, ideally at the correct destination. Passenger/transport aircraft would seem to be unlikely to be any kind of threat to an ‘e.t.’, or of any other interest. Even fast jets would seem to be little threat, and any advanced alien technology could likely do all the monitoring it wanted of our puny aircraft from a great distance rather than close-up, where they can be seen..
If they’re not scared of us, it doesn’t matter how aggressive we are. They could sit safely in geostationary orbit broadcast massages of peace or whatever right to everyone’s satellite dish.
At the moment, if there are aliens, all they’re managing to achieve is make most people think that a few people are either mis-seeing certain optical/atmospheric effects, making up stories, seeing what they want to see, or just being a bit unstable, and that doesn’t seem to have changed much over the last generation or so. How long are they going to wait, achieving the same amount of nothing much?
Thousands *is* small numbers, clearly small enough not to strike most people as meaningful.
In any case, if there are alternative explanation for sightings (optical illusions, radar imperfections, etc,) each explanation could apply to sightings by lots of people.
The point is that they aren’t showing themselves everywhere.
They aren’t hovering low over large cities in the daytime, they aren’t buzzing the Superbowl, etc, yet if your alleged sightings were sightings of actual alien or alien-derived craft, they are also being a very long way from discreet.
Hello:
Sorry I didn't get right back to you all but the kids shoveling my roof knocked my satelite out of whack so I was internetless for a bit. Okay… I guess I haven't made myself clear. I didn't just see "something" flying around. I saw the bloody thing land right in front of me. Now, you could say that I am crazy, and as a matter of fact when this happens you question yourself and others as to your own sanity. The thing is, if I have lost my mind seeing all these things, and I say ALL because it is still going on here, then I am not the only one who has lost my mind. If I have lost it, then so has my entire family and neighbours. Not to mention my mother and father who live a block away. We have seen them up close and personal. So close, that you know it is not an airplane, weather balloon, sun spot, helicopter or anything else like that. These are not from earth. The little people flying them are NOT from earth. Now I have said this before… UNLESS George Bush (who looks very alien like to me) is flying around in one of his "Black Craft" over our town and our closed down mines, stealing resources, then they are UFO's from another planet. Even though I can picture him looking like Mr. Burns from The Simpsons, counting his money hunched over in a flying saucer, stolen from the aliens, I really don't think it was him. My husband just saw another last night where he stays in camp. My husband and my father were the biggest skeptics (even more than you) they wouldn't even discuss such things until this year when one landed right outside the back yard. It was unmistakably a definate craft from out of this world. They are here, we see them almost nightly, although they don't land in front of us all the time. Think whatever you want, I am not making it up. I am not delusional, and I only know this because if so we would all be. Even though I realise what I am saying sounds like I am, you won't understand until it happens to you. Peace.
PS.
The little people were not green. :)
Do you not understand that we would love to be a part of this? Please please please please take videos, photos, dictation from these creatures. Anything. Escort them to your local newspaper or TV station. Ask them to contact your mayor, sheriff, constable newspaper boy. Anyone to cooborrate your story. Anyone!! Anyone who can objectively bring this to the public eye. Anyone!!!
These types of claims have been flowing in for years, and not a single person making them can back them up with anything more than what you're offering us.
Put yourself in our position. Would you believe your story?
This has been reported. We have to major ufo investigators who are supposed to be coming out. One, was heading out here early in December then suddenly took very ill. The other is over 14 hours away from me and wrote that they definately will be coming out but the roads are treacherous right now, so don't know when that will be. Believe me I would love for them to have been here in December as that is when the major activity was taking place. I infact do have absolutely clear video which I have never seen anything like on youtube or anywhere else. These which I refuse to put on the web to be shot down as fakes like every other one out there will be shown to these investigators a.s.a.p.
I have believed forever that we cannot possibly be the only living beings in our universe, so yes, I probably would believe if you told me you have seen these ufo's. As far as the other really wierd stuff…….hmmm I don't know because I hardly believed it myself even though I was looking right at it. I understand your doubt, but at the same time I don't understand how you can think so many people are lying or seeing things other than what they know they are seeing. I guess you just have to be in my position to know what I am going through. I want everyone to see because it is so awesome, scary, yes I suppose unbelievable and yet thrilling at the same time. Come stay over night at my place for a few and see!
By the way, they travel faster than you can ever imagine. Saw them do it, so as far as getting from here to anywhere that is not a problem. Not a matter of wanting to see it. I saw it and had no choice, but for arguments sake. You win :)
*two
BLASe,
I can’t stress enough how much I would love for alien creatures to land among us and announce their presence. I agree, the universe is so massive that it is more than likely a certainty that there is other life forms besides what we know on this planet. But please look into the problems of space travel that arise from the enormous distances between star systems and imagine what it would take to get here. It’s not impossible, but the difficulty would almost negate the secrecy of a race overcoming it.
And should a species conquer those problems, imagine how they would announce their presence. Would it be semi-covert, or absolutely covert? Or would it be absolutely overt?
But all of this has little to do with us on this planet. It has little to do with what humans want to be true. Many of us want it. But that doesn’t make it so.
Consider the number of children that believe in Santa Claus. Millions of them will swear they have seen a sled in the sky on Christmas eve. But that doesn’t mean Santa Claus is actually flying through the atmosphere. It’s just any of various natural anomalies being given credence by a need to believe — by millions of otherwise rational people.
We are a frightened species that wants to be a part of a universal community. I’m a part of that species myself. I want it, too. But we must be practical and thorough when judging the things we think suggest we are being visited from beyond our solar system.
There must be irrefutable evidence.
BLASe wrote:
Please reread Sam's posts carefully. He's not saying everyone is lying, he's just saying a bunch of experts are misinterpreting things because of faulty expectations, and a number of others are probably interpreting the things they see in the way they want them to be, not the way they probably are.
You'll find no group of people more eager to change their minds about anything, but at the same time, this group won't change their mind until there's been good reason to do so. A bunch of people saying they saw something isn't going to cut it. Evidence is the key.
Thank you for clearing that up for me. I am not going to continue trying to change your minds. I know what is here and I suppose that will have to be good enough. Now that the initial shock has subsided I will just be carrying on with life as usual. Thanks for chatting.
I honestly hope we didn't scare you away by being a bit too confrontational. Like I said, it's not that we don't believe you, it's that the things you can offer us to support your case are probably not strong enough to convince us.
It sounds like a fascinating mystery. One we'd love to sink our teeth into. But I wonder if any explanation we might offer will fall on deaf ears on your end. It often does. Hence the somewhat confrontational responses …
Hell NO! I love a good confrontation. I am a Taurus though…. I am stubborn, but for good reason. Simply because I know what I saw. Whether they are from another planet, or living under our earth I can't say. However they weren't human as we know them and the crafts are not ones we see flying around normally. That is all I can say on that. Good talking to you for sure. Get back to me anytime.